Chamber
Plenary, 23 Feb 2006
23 Feb 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Sorry. I have only a minute and a half left.
In evidence to the committee, the British Horse Society suggested that statutory improvement notices could be used when a horse is being exposed to ragwort and it is likely that it will ingest the plant. It proposes the application of enforceable notices that state that either the horse or the ragwort must be removed. It also suggests that section 20 should be amended to refer specifically to ragwort poisoning, although I note that the minister responded by observing that section 22 places a greater onus on people who own or work with horses to take steps to avoid ragwort poisoning.
The BHS stressed that there is an opportunity to use animal welfare codes and the regulation-making powers in the bill to regulate ragwort control. That might involve statutory guidance that is similar to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs code of practice that was introduced south of the border by the Ragwort Control Act 2003, so we might be able to bring our legislation into line with the English legislation.
I seek clarification of the responsibilities of the owner of the horse when the horse is on loan to other individuals or is kept in livery stables and maintenance of the land is not the responsibility of the owner. The bill suggests that it is solely the owner's responsibility to remove ragwort from forage. It suggests that the owner should go through the hay to look for ragwort. In the winter, horses consume large amounts of hay and it is difficult for owners to go through it and look for bits of ragwort. I think that the person who produces the forage has a responsibility to ensure that it is not contaminated with ragwort. I ask the minister to provide some clarification on that.
In evidence to the committee, the British Horse Society suggested that statutory improvement notices could be used when a horse is being exposed to ragwort and it is likely that it will ingest the plant. It proposes the application of enforceable notices that state that either the horse or the ragwort must be removed. It also suggests that section 20 should be amended to refer specifically to ragwort poisoning, although I note that the minister responded by observing that section 22 places a greater onus on people who own or work with horses to take steps to avoid ragwort poisoning.
The BHS stressed that there is an opportunity to use animal welfare codes and the regulation-making powers in the bill to regulate ragwort control. That might involve statutory guidance that is similar to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs code of practice that was introduced south of the border by the Ragwort Control Act 2003, so we might be able to bring our legislation into line with the English legislation.
I seek clarification of the responsibilities of the owner of the horse when the horse is on loan to other individuals or is kept in livery stables and maintenance of the land is not the responsibility of the owner. The bill suggests that it is solely the owner's responsibility to remove ragwort from forage. It suggests that the owner should go through the hay to look for ragwort. In the winter, horses consume large amounts of hay and it is difficult for owners to go through it and look for bits of ragwort. I think that the person who produces the forage has a responsibility to ensure that it is not contaminated with ragwort. I ask the minister to provide some clarification on that.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S2M-3894, in the name of Ross Finnie, on the general principles of the Animal Health and Welfa...
The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie):
LD
The Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Bill represents a significant step forward for animal health and welfare in Scotland. The bill is the outcome of a p...
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I agree with much of what the minister said, but what evidence did he take from vets on tail docking and on their concerns about the long-term welfare of wor...
Ross Finnie:
LD
I think that the member is aware—perhaps he is not—that, in response to our announcement that we would ban all tail docking, we had the whole-hearted support...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
Will the minister reassure members that people who are under 16 will be able to own animals? I am thinking in particular of youngsters on a farm who have a l...
Ross Finnie:
LD
The principle that the bill will establish is that responsibility for an animal rests with an adult. It will be the adult's responsibility to ensure that the...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
Will the minister clarify that not only selling recordings of animal fights will be an offence, but recording them will be an offence, too?
Ross Finnie:
LD
Indeed. Recording animal fights, selling those recordings and using them for promotional activities will be offences. Recordings of animal fights have been s...
Richard Lochhead (North East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
The SNP whole-heartedly supports the general principles of the Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Bill because it offers a modern framework for the impleme...
Ross Finnie:
LD
Will the member please explain something in developing that point? It is expressly set out in proposed new schedule 3A to the 1981 act that slaughter powers ...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
The bill will give the minister enormous discretion, as I am about to illustrate. Many people think that the schedule to which the minister refers will not p...
Phil Gallie:
Con
The minister announced that a 12-month sentence was likely for people who commit violent crimes against animals. Given that the Executive is concerned about ...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
The member is referring to the maximum penalty, of course. There is widespread agreement that cruelty to animals that causes pain and suffering must be addre...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
Will Richard Lochhead take an intervention?
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
No. The member is in his last minute.
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
I apologise. I am in my last minute and cannot take any interventions.Internet trading is another issue that was brought to the attention of the committee, a...
Mr Ted Brocklebank (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
With avian flu perhaps only days away from detection in these islands, it is timely that this stage 1 debate on the Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Bill...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Does Ted Brocklebank agree that the docking of working dogs' tails is all about welfare? I cannot think of any other reason why people who have working dogs ...
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
I agree absolutely with what Mike Rumbles says. That is the whole point. People who use and are involved with working dogs look after the welfare of those do...
Ross Finnie:
LD
I respect the member's personal opinion. However, does he accept that vets devote their lives to animal welfare and that the British Veterinary Association h...
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
Yes, indeed. I heard that evidence. However, as the minister will know, many other veterinary witnesses who gave evidence took a totally opposing view—especi...
Maureen Macmillan:
Lab
Will the member give way?
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
No, I will make some progress.Country vets know which puppies are intended as genuine working dogs. The fact is that we will still dock pigs' and lambs' tail...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I thank the clerks of the Environment and Rural Development Committee for their work on the bill—sterling, as usual. I also thank all those who gave evidence...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (Con):
Con
Owners of working dogs who shorten the dogs' tails do so to secure the animals' future welfare. How does the member square that with the minister's publicly ...
Maureen Macmillan:
Lab
I will address that point later in my speech; I hope that Alex Fergusson will not mind waiting until then.The first issue to consider is the definition of an...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con):
Con
What Maureen Macmillan says leads to another question: will it be illegal to work working dogs with natural tails in the certain knowledge that their having ...
Maureen Macmillan:
Lab
I do not think that there would be "certain knowledge".
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
What about the Swedish study?
Maureen Macmillan:
Lab
I do not think that the Swedish study was all that robust.The Executive addressed to my satisfaction the questions that the committee raised on animal fights...