Committee
Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 2000
29 Sep 2000 · S1 · Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee
Item of business
Scottish Qualifications Authority
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I welcome you all to the 22nd meeting this year of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. We are in mid-flow, as Mr Swinney has gone on to other things—that is why I am convening this meeting.
On behalf of the committee, I welcome everyone who is here today. We have apologies from Nick Johnston, George Lyon and Elaine Thomson. I extend a welcome to Cathy Peattie, who is attending our inquiry meetings as the reporter from the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, and to Mike Russell, who is also attending as a member of that committee.
As everyone is aware, the purpose of this meeting is to continue our inquiry into governance of the Scottish Qualifications Authority. Everyone has a copy of the remit. At the risk of being tedious, I have been reminding members and witnesses that our remit is focused. We are principally concerned with issues or factors that may affect governance.
I have one small housekeeping point, which arises from the discussion at our previous meeting about the availability of papers and whether the committee would or should seek papers that might fall within the Executive code of conduct. It was the decision of the committee that I should approach the convener of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee to discuss the matter, which I did. We agreed that if, at the end of our respective inquiries, we considered that there had been omissions in the evidence that we had received—and it would be for this committee to decide whether there had been such omissions—it would be for us to make whatever requests we considered necessary to address that omission and to seek whatever further evidence we thought appropriate. Mrs Mulligan proposes to proceed in the same way on behalf of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee.
On behalf of the committee, I welcome everyone who is here today. We have apologies from Nick Johnston, George Lyon and Elaine Thomson. I extend a welcome to Cathy Peattie, who is attending our inquiry meetings as the reporter from the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, and to Mike Russell, who is also attending as a member of that committee.
As everyone is aware, the purpose of this meeting is to continue our inquiry into governance of the Scottish Qualifications Authority. Everyone has a copy of the remit. At the risk of being tedious, I have been reminding members and witnesses that our remit is focused. We are principally concerned with issues or factors that may affect governance.
I have one small housekeeping point, which arises from the discussion at our previous meeting about the availability of papers and whether the committee would or should seek papers that might fall within the Executive code of conduct. It was the decision of the committee that I should approach the convener of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee to discuss the matter, which I did. We agreed that if, at the end of our respective inquiries, we considered that there had been omissions in the evidence that we had received—and it would be for this committee to decide whether there had been such omissions—it would be for us to make whatever requests we considered necessary to address that omission and to seek whatever further evidence we thought appropriate. Mrs Mulligan proposes to proceed in the same way on behalf of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Convener (Miss Annabel Goldie):
Con
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I welcome you all to the 22nd meeting this year of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. We are in mid-flow, as...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
Another preliminary matter has emerged this morning, which I would like to raise before we examine today's evidence. On 20 September, when we took evidence f...
Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab):
Lab
Can I raise a point, convener?
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
I have almost concluded. There is only one more, short paragraph.
Allan Wilson:
Lab
Other members are at a disadvantage.
Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):
Lab
Does the deputy convener have a copy of the letter?
The Deputy Convener:
Con
The letter should have been in everyone's mailbox this morning.
Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab):
Lab
It was not in my mailbox.
Allan Wilson:
Lab
It was certainly not in mine.
Simon Watkins (Clerk to the Committee):
It is the information that we requested of the members of the Executive department who appeared before the committee, which had not arrived in time for the p...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
The letter from which Mr Ewing is quoting is from Mr Aitken.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Mr Aitken was one of the three civil servants who appeared as witnesses before this committee. The letter is addressed to the clerk of the committee and is d...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
You received a hard copy of it this morning.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Yes.
Dr Murray:
Lab
The rest of us did not.
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Although the letter has been in the routine dispatch and Mr Ewing has received it, other members may not have received it. The clerk is now arranging for cop...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
The last relevant section of the letter states:"Under the terms of this contract"—that is, the contract between the Scottish Executive and Deloitte & Touche,...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Thank you for raising the matter, Mr Ewing. I agree that it is relevant to the issues that the committee is considering. Do members have any comments?
Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab):
Lab
It is clear that the issue is relevant to our inquiry. However, I would like to read the letter before I comment on it; I did not receive a copy this morning.
Allan Wilson:
Lab
I am not sure whether the matter is directly relevant to the remit of our inquiry. However, like my colleague, I am always reluctant to comment on documentat...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab):
Lab
I agree with Allan Wilson. I have read the letter and I, too, was surprised at the paragraph that talks about information being available to the consultants ...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Mr Ewing's point is important and I am grateful to him for raising it. However, most of us are at a practical disadvantage, either having not received the le...
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Would it be possible for the clerk to copy the letter to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee? Although the deputy convener has seen the letter, I do n...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
I realise that aspects of the issue raised by Mr Ewing will be of significance to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. Our clerk, Mr Watkins, tells me...
Dr Murray:
Lab
In the light of the fact that we have several witnesses who are waiting patiently to give evidence, I think that we should proceed.
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Without further ado, I would like to proceed with our agenda. I welcome from the Association of Scottish Colleges Mr Iain Ovens and Mr Tom Kelly. I think tha...
Tom Kelly (Association of Scottish Colleges):
We have agreed that I will introduce our evidence. I am Tom Kelly, the chief officer of the Association of Scottish Colleges. My colleague Iain Ovens is prin...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
That was very helpful, Mr Kelly. I will commence proceedings with one or two general questions. In the "Review and Recovery" section of your paper, you produ...
Tom Kelly:
That question must be answered both positively and negatively. On the positive side, the SQA has worked hard to improve communications and dialogue with our ...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Why?