Committee
Education, Children and Young People Committee 01 March 2023
01 Mar 2023 · S6 · Education, Children and Young People Committee
Item of business
Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Good morning, and welcome to the seventh meeting of the Education, Children and Young People Committee in 2023. The first item on our agenda is our final evidence session on the Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome our first panel of witnesses. Pam Duncan-Glancy MSP is the member in charge of the bill, and Bill Scott is a senior policy adviser for Inclusion Scotland. We will begin with a short statement from Pam Duncan-Glancy before moving to questions from members. You have three minutes, Pam.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Sue Webber)
Con
Good morning, and welcome to the seventh meeting of the Education, Children and Young People Committee in 2023. The first item on our agenda is our final evi...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you, convener, and good morning to the committee. It is a pleasure to be back in front of you. I want to thank you for all the evidence that you have t...
The Convener
Con
Thank you very much, Pam. We move to questions, starting with Ruth Maguire.
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning. Thank you, Pam, for being with us. I appreciate your opening statement, particularly your recognition of the evidence that committee colleagues...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I thank Ruth Maguire for that question. There are a number of reasons for the implementation gap, and you have highlighted some of them. They include issues...
Ruth Maguire
SNP
Thank you for that.
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I think that Bill Scott was going to comment.
Ruth Maguire
SNP
I will just ask you another question, if that is okay, and Bill can come in after that. We have legislation in place but, as we all acknowledge, it is clear...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Much of that rests in the legislative structure created by the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004. The 2004 act provides for a c...
Bill Scott (Inclusion Scotland)
Very much so. A really reasonable question is being asked, which is, “Why will the bill make a difference?” The problem at the moment is to do with the fact...
Ruth Maguire
SNP
There is a lot in that to probe, but I do not want to tread on other people’s questions.
The Convener
Con
Some of the substance of Bill Scott’s response will be interrogated—I know that that is the wrong word, but I am struggling to think of another—by the deputy...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning. At last week’s meeting, the Scottish Transitions Forum talked about there being a “legislation salad”. The view has been expressed that the leg...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I heard the evidence that you took in which reference was made to the “legislation salad”. That was a really good description of where things are. There is ...
Graeme Dey
SNP
Is another strategy not the last thing that we need? Is it not action that we need? On that basis, this process of interrogating your bill has laid bare, for...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Yes, absolutely, and I thank Graeme Dey for saying that. There is a much bigger picture here. I hope that, through bills that will come to the Parliament, in...
Bill Scott
I will just make a brief point on the legislation salad issue. Part 5 of the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014, which is where the child plan fea...
The Convener
Con
We will move to questions from Stephen Kerr.
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Kaukab Stewart and I were going to ask a similar question about definitions—why have you chosen to use the definitions that are deployed in the Equality Act ...
The Convener
Con
The deputy convener will drill down more on the finance questions later.
Stephen Kerr
Con
Can we start with the issue of the definitions and what your calculation of those definitions is in terms of the number of people the bill will cover?
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Yes, absolutely. I thank Stephen Kerr for that question. The definition that we have chosen in the bill is the definition of a disabled person in the Equa...
Stephen Kerr
Con
There is an element of self-identification in there as well, is there not?
Pam Duncan-Glancy
There is, but it is also about suggesting that a disability or condition has a long-term impact on people’s lives. That is not new: it is how organisations a...
Stephen Kerr
Con
That was going to be my next question.
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Excellent. I am glad to be on the front foot for a change. They are doing that. I know that because the data on young people with additional support needs i...
Stephen Kerr
Con
But who ultimately decides? Some people will feel that their children should be included in the category of people who automatically receive a support plan, ...
Bill Scott
In essence, that will be determined in the same way as the Equality Act 2010 determines that. If a child’s parents believe that their child is impaired to a ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I will add to that before Stephen Kerr comes back in. Schools and the structures around young disabled people now are probably contending with that exact que...
Stephen Kerr
Con
Kaukab Stewart will talk about the financial implications of the definition, which are significant. I will move on to my last question. In the evidence on t...