Committee
Education, Children and Young People Committee 01 November 2023
01 Nov 2023 · S6 · Education, Children and Young People Committee
Item of business
Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Michelle Thomson is next. Thank you for your patience, Michelle.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Con
Good morning, and welcome to the 27th meeting in 2023 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. I am sorry—I am getting confused. I am going ba...
Brendan Rooney (Scottish Government)
Good morning. I am the bill manager.
Shona Spence (Scottish Government)
I am a professional adviser to the bill team.
Jack Eykelbosch (Scottish Government)
I am an economist for the Scottish Government’s children and families directorate.
The Convener
Con
I welcome you to the meeting and invite the minister to make an opening statement.
The Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise (Natalie Don)
SNP
Thank you very much, convener. The bill takes forward key measures to help Scotland to improve the rights of children and their life outcomes. It is firmly e...
The Convener
Con
Thank you for that, minister. We will move to questions from members. I will start. The Scottish Government’s updated finances for the bill provide more mon...
Natalie Don
SNP
Obviously, recruitment and retention are a matter for social work, and that stretches across different policy areas. A host of work is under way to help with...
The Convener
Con
You say that it is not in the public domain. When can the committee expect to have sight of that document, given that it is a really important document and g...
Natalie Don
SNP
On your first point, matters relating to the timing do not sit directly under my portfolio, so I could perhaps come back to the committee on that question. I...
The Convener
Con
If the framework will be published next year and is not under your remit, that indicates the cross-portfolio nature of the bill and that there will be impact...
Natalie Don
SNP
The voices of those involved will be key as we move forward. You picked up on a couple of points. This work stretches across various portfolios, and there a...
The Convener
Con
The voices are being quite specific in saying that social workers are overstretched and that there are serious issues with recruitment. A short-life working ...
Natalie Don
SNP
I was referring to the improvement plan, which will feed in to—
The Convener
Con
That plan will be published next year, so it will not help them right now. What are we doing to recruit and retain staff right now? We cannot afford to be bl...
Natalie Don
SNP
I am sorry, convener—I thought that I was here to answer questions on the issues with the bill as it progresses, and those relate to the longer term. As I sa...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Do you consider support for social workers and the social work profession to be key to the bill’s implementation?
Natalie Don
SNP
Absolutely.
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
In that case, the answers that you have just given about that issue not directly relating to the passage of the bill do not seem to be very adequate.
Natalie Don
SNP
Sorry?
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
In that case, it feels as though the answers that you have just given on the record about the importance of ensuring that there are enough social workers in ...
Natalie Don
SNP
I have laid out the range of steps that we are taking to help with recruitment and retention issues. Across the Government, we are taking steps to address th...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Surely, minister, you cannot expect members across the Parliament to vote for a bill that relies so heavily on social work without any reassurance from you t...
Natalie Don
SNP
I do not believe that I have not given any reassurances. I said that work is under way in the group and on the improvement plan. As I said, we are listening ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Social Work Scotland and Children’s Hearings Scotland last week suggested that a 12 to 18-month timescale between the bill receiving royal assent and commenc...
Natalie Don
SNP
That is still being considered. It will be wholly dependent on the future progress of the bill and what happens at stage 2 and, ultimately, at stage 3.
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Is it your intention at stage 2 or stage 3 to commence the parts of the bill that are relevant to those points within that timescale? Will the Government lod...
Natalie Don
SNP
I cannot get into stage 2 amendments at this stage; that would be for stage 2.
The Convener
Con
Liam Kerr has a quick supplementary question on this theme.
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I declare my interest as a practising solicitor. Concerns have been raised that the already under-resourced legal profession may be required to provide even ...