Committee
Criminal Justice Committee 02 October 2024
02 Oct 2024 · S6 · Criminal Justice Committee
Item of business
Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Some of my amendments are probing amendments, and I would be happy to work with members to tighten them up. In lodging my amendments, I have sought to address some of the many concerns that were raised in our evidence sessions. I want to tighten up the police’s procedures to make sure that the bill addresses some of the concerns that were raised. When we asked victims and survivors whether the bill would fix the problems that they had encountered, they said that it would not. I would be more than happy to tighten up my amendments. I will listen to what the cabinet secretary has to say, but I am happy to speak to anybody in order to get my amendments pushed through at stage 3. Amendment 55 seeks to add provisions on timescales in misconduct procedures. The amendment seeks to provide for regulations to be made that would include timescales for the completion of investigations into alleged unsatisfactory behaviour and for the disciplinary process. During evidence sessions, we heard from people who had experienced the impact of delays in the complaints process. For example, we heard Stephanie Bonner’s account of the delays that she faced, which were unacceptable. Amendment 55 would go to the root of the problem by ensuring that clear time limits were identified. Amendment 15 seeks to add to the bill a section relating to a power of the chief constable to dismiss constables on conduct or behaviour grounds. It would give the chief constable the power to dismiss any constable whose conduct failed to meet certain behaviour standards or the code of ethics. Amendment 15 seeks to address the significant concerns about delays in the process. If an officer’s behaviour fulfils the criteria, the chief constable should be able to dismiss them without going through the process, where an outcome is inevitable. I mentioned the existence of irrefutable evidence. Secondly, the amendment seeks to address the public concern about constables who have done significant wrongs but have been kept on, on full pay, while their case has been investigated. Recently, we heard about a constable who was arrested in August 2021 and who, despite being suspended, received full pay until he quit the force earlier this year. He was sentenced to prison for his conduct. Amendment 58 is like amendment 15 in that it would give the chief constable the power to dismiss a constable for their behaviour. The amendment would give the chief constable the power to dismiss an officer with or without notice when the chief constable considered the officer’s behaviour to be unacceptable. That relates to the officer’s compliance with behaviour standards or the code of ethics. Similarly to amendment 15, amendment 58 addresses concerns about delays in process. Under the amendment, the chief constable would have to give written reasons for the dismissal and prepare and publish guidance on the use of the power. Amendment 26 relates to the right of appeal to a police tribunal. The bill, as drafted, allows only a senior officer to do that. Amendment 26 would also allow constables to do so. Currently, the bill limits the right of appeal to senior officers. Any constable is allowed to appeal to a police tribunal against a decision to dismiss them or to demote them in rank. However, section 8 gives only senior officers the additional right to appeal against a decision to take disciplinary action short of dismissal or demotion due to their conduct. That right should be extended to all constables. Amendment 27 has the same effect as amendment 26. Amendment 28 is consequential to amendments 26 and 27 and relates to the meaning of “a constable” in relation to the right to appeal at a tribunal. Amendment 29 has the same effect as amendment 28. Amendment 30 concerns the circumstances in which a constable can be suspended from duty pending investigation. The amendment would mean that regulations for automatic suspension from the role of constable would apply only where the investigation relates to gross misconduct or a criminal offence or, in other words, an allegation that would lead to their dismissal. The amendment is needed to clarify in the legislation the reasons why automatic suspension can apply. Amendment 31 deals with the notification to constables of misconduct proceedings against them. The amendment would require regulations to be made that would require constables to be notified as soon as an investigation into their standard of behaviour has commenced. The amendment would ensure that constables who are subject to misconduct proceedings are kept informed of the proceedings against them. Amendment 32 concerns how disciplinary provisions relate to a constable during a criminal investigation. The amendment seeks to clarify that the procedures in the proposed new section apply to constables when they are subject to criminal investigations and proceedings. The amendment would ensure clarity. Those amendments seek to address a number of concerns that were raised during evidence sessions to do with officers resigning and no further action being taken; the lack of timescales for conducting and completing misconduct complaints and investigations; the chief constable’s inability to dismiss a constable where there is irrefutable evidence of guilt; and constables being suspended without being informed of the reason why. I am pleased that the cabinet secretary has indicated that the Government will support amendments 12 to 14, 18, 20 and 22 to 24. The Government has agreed to work on amendment 53 for stage 3, so I will not move it today. The Government has also indicated that it will support amendment 17 if amendment 21 is not moved, and I will not move amendment 21. My other amendments were lodged with the best intentions of improving the bill. I agree that some could be defined more for stage 3, and I look forward to hearing the cabinet secretary’s comments on them. I move amendment 12.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Audrey Nicoll)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the 30th meeting in 2024 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have no apologies. Our main item of business is consideration of...
The Convener
SNP
The first group of amendments is on the code of ethics. Amendment 1, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 48, 2, 49, 3, 4 and 50.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance)
SNP
Good morning. I will first speak to amendments 1 and 2, which will add further sources that the chief constable must refer to when preparing the code. That f...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I will support the Government’s and Sharon Dowey’s amendments, if they are pressed to a vote. I do not intend to press my amendments 48 and 49 to a vote toda...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
We intend to support the amendments in the group if they are pressed to a vote. Amendment 4 seeks to add to the list of people who should be consulted on th...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I seek clarification on the cabinet secretary’s position on Katy Clark’s amendments. The Government’s amendment 1 seeks to adopt, for example, the European c...
Sharon Dowey
Con
No—the position is as the cabinet secretary said. It is not about consulting every person who has had a complaint in the police system but about taking a gro...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Right. I know that that will be for discussion between you and the cabinet secretary but, when the revised amendment is being framed, I would like it to be c...
The Convener
SNP
I will bring in the cabinet secretary, and Sharon Dowey can come back in if she wants to add anything.
Angela Constance
SNP
I reiterate that I am more than happy to work with Katy Clark and Sharon Dowey in advance of stage 3. On the concerns about the phrase “lesser obligation”, ...
The Convener
SNP
As no other member wants to come in, do you want to add anything else in winding up?
Angela Constance
SNP
No, thank you. I think that I have done my winding up. Amendment 1 agreed to. Amendment 48 not moved. Amendment 2 moved—Angela Constance—and agreed to. ...
The Convener
SNP
We move to group 2, on duty on candour. Amendment 5, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 6 to 11.
Angela Constance
SNP
Amendments 5, 8 and 11 relate to the individual duty of candour inserted into the standards of professional behaviour and the organisational duty added to th...
Sharon Dowey
Con
Amendment 6 adds to the provisions that would introduce a duty of candour to the Police Service of Scotland (Senior Officers) (Conduct) Regulations 2013. The...
Katy Clark
Lab
I support the Scottish Government’s intention to attempt to strengthen and codify the duty of candour. The duty of candour for public officials is a live iss...
The Convener
SNP
There was quite a lot in there. I will bring in Pauline McNeill, before the cabinet secretary responds. 09:30
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Thank you. I am in the same position as Katy Clark, in that I think that the amendments in this group are really important, regardless of how they have been...
The Convener
SNP
If no other members wish to come in, I will bring in the cabinet secretary to wind up.
Angela Constance
SNP
On the types of offences related to misusing public office, there is a live discussion across the UK right now, for various reasons that cut across the Hills...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
There were quite a few points that you did not cover there. The one that I am keen to understand relates to the language around “reasonable assertion”.
Angela Constance
SNP
There are complicated questions in relation to application and scope, so I will probably require a bit of consultation with legal officials and will come bac...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
To be fair, I did not expect you to answer that. It is just that we are going to vote on the matter shortly, so I want to be sure about what “reasonable asse...
Angela Constance
SNP
I do not have anything to add to or subtract from what I have said. Amendment 5 agreed to. Amendment 6 not moved. Amendments 7 and 8 moved—Angela Constanc...
The Convener
SNP
The next group is on the vetting of constables and police staff. Amendment 43, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 44 to 47.
Angela Constance
SNP
The amendments in group 3 respond directly to the recommendation that was made by His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland to ensure that there...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I am extremely concerned about these amendments. The bill was published on 6 June, and here we are, 12 weeks later, considering a load of amendments from the...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Like Russell Findlay, I have heard similar concerns. Cabinet secretary, you opened by saying that the committee had asked for these changes, but that is not...
Katy Clark
Lab
I am very sympathetic to what the Scottish Government is trying to do. It is clear that we need to strengthen the vetting processes that existed historically...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
It is clear that vetting procedures need to be strengthened, and that is what the amendments are trying to do. Going back to Russell Findlay’s comments, I a...