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Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

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2,354,908
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1999–2026
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Showing 60 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
26 Mar 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
We do not even have the costs or a correct financial memorandum. The initial cost for the set-up of the court was £1.4 million, and there are recurring costs. We have already agreed to the victims commissioner, but it was going to cost £640,000 to implement that and the recurr...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
26 Mar 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I share the concerns that Pauline McNeill has just outlined, and I support her amendments. Russell Findlay’s amendments 26 to 52, 56 and 58 would remove the establishment of the sexual offences court from the bill. Everyone on this committee agrees that victims of sexual offe...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Committee
04 Dec 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
You both said that you support a stand-alone specialist court. I am still trying to get my head around all this. We are talking about giving all victims more choice in how they give evidence. Everybody is different. We heard in evidence that there are some people who still wan...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
27 Sep 2023
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I will follow on from that line on questioning. We have a High Court and a sheriff court, so why do we need a new sexual offences court? The convener put it quite well when she asked whether we could improve and refine what already exists. How much will it cost to set up the n...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
07 Feb 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Cabinet secretary, in your response to the convener, you talked about building something “from the ground up” in relation to the sexual offences court and, in your reply to Pauline McNeill, you said that the new court will be built “from the ground up”. What will the differenc...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
18 Feb 2026
Subordinate Legislation
I will come back to the two offences that are being removed from the scheme, and my question follows on from what Pauline McNeill asked. It is only in the past two years that the offences have not been used. They are tools in the toolbox, but if they are taken away, the only o...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
18 Mar 2026
Subordinate Legislation
The increase in the fine was not an issue at committee last week—I think that we all agreed on that. Similarly, adding in the extra offence was not an issue, either. However, there was concern about the process around removing two offences.Robert Wyllie said that there was eng...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
17 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill
I acknowledge that the bill contains some improvements, and I welcome the fact that the Government backed my amendments to toughen up non-harassment orders and allow for a review to notify victims when fiscal fines are issued. However, taken as a whole, the bill fails to deliv...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
01 Apr 2025
Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I, too, thank the clerks for the work that they put into producing the committee’s report, and I thank everyone who gave evidence. The importance of the measures that are set out in the bill cannot be ignored. As with all legislation, it is important that MSPs of all parties...
Sharon Dowey Con Chamber
16 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Amendment 104 would require that, in cases where the victim is eligible to make a victim impact statement, the court must allow for the statement to be read aloud in court. There is currently no requirement for a victim impact statement to be read aloud in court, but I think ...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
22 Jun 2023
Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill
My party has serious concerns about the damage that the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill could do. Regrettably, the bill is yet another example of the SNP’s soft-touch approach to justice. The needs of criminals are, once again, being prioritised over the rights o...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Committee
10 Jan 2024
Management of Sexual Offences Cases
The review group concluded that a specialist sexual offences court should be set up that adopts the routine pre-recording of complainers’ evidence and uses trauma-informed practice. You said earlier that there was a requirement for specialist training, however we did it. With ...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
10 Jan 2024
Management of Sexual Offences Cases
When you recommended setting up a specialist sexual offences court, did you envisage a new purpose-built court for that, or do you think that it can be done in the current estate?
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
10 Jan 2024
Management of Sexual Offences Cases
The report recommends that the sexual offences court should have sentencing powers up to 10 years’ imprisonment. What is the basis for that limit, considering that there is no limit on the length of prison sentence when someone is convicted of rape in the High Court?
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
10 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Should the proposed specialist sexual offences court have exclusive jurisdiction to hear sexual offences cases, or can you envisage circumstances in which a case of that nature would still be tried in the High Court?
Sharon Dowey Con Chamber
16 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Non-harassment orders are a vital tool in protecting victims from further harm. They can be used to prohibit an offender from contacting or approaching a victim and so enable the police to intervene to prevent further harassment, even where the offender’s behaviour might not o...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
04 Dec 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
If we are saying that people would not be able to take part in a trial unless they had had specialist training, why would we need to have a stand-alone sexual offences court? Nobody—including advocates, people working in the court and judges—would be allowed to take part unles...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
08 Jun 2023
“Criminal courts backlog”
The modelling initially suggested in 2021 that the courts service was aiming for a backlog target of 390 High Court trials and 500 sheriff court solemn trials in order to return to normal. The report that you have now published states that the targets have shifted to 567 High ...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
14 Sep 2023
Section 23 Report: “Criminal courts backlog”
The Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service’s modelling for 2021 initially stated that its target for clearing the backlog was to reach 390 outstanding High Court trials and 500 outstanding sheriff court solemn trials in order to return to normal. The report that Audit Scotland ...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
17 Sep 2025
Supreme Court Judgment (Definition of “Woman” in the Equality Act 2010)
I very much welcome the motion that has been lodged by my friend and colleague Pam Gosal. I especially back the motion’s conclusion, which urges the Scottish Government “to ensure that” its policies “are in line with the law.” The Supreme Court judgment in April was unequi...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
19 Mar 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Amendment 91 would require the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service to prepare and publish an annual report to the Parliament on the use of floating trial diets and their impact on victims. The amendment tries to find a commonsense compromise between two arguments, balancing ...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
10 Jan 2024
Management of Sexual Offences Cases
Is that what you meant when you said in your report that “The specialist court would have access to a much wider pool of venues than currently available to the High Court.”? You were talking about using all the courts that are available to us.
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
10 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Good morning, Lord Advocate. Does the Crown Office have the resources that it needs to adapt to a new specialist court being set up, in respect of prosecuting in the sexual offences court?
Sharon Dowey Con Chamber
23 Apr 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I thank Christine Grahame for that. Cabinet secretaries and ministers are accountable to Parliament, so I do not know whether we need to finance another commissioner. We are concerned that the bill’s financial memorandum does not entirely outline the cost of implementing part...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
25 Oct 2023
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Section 48 of the Children (Scotland) Act 2020 aims to address some of the weaknesses of the Vulnerable Witnesses (Scotland) Act 2004 by making changes to it. However, the provisions in that section are not yet in force. Can you comment on the provisions that have not been bro...
Sharon Dowey Con Chamber
16 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
I was going to come back to that point in answer to Jamie Greene. Where the amendment says that the statement is to be read by “the person who made the statement if that person requests to do so,” I was trying to make the point that they would not have to read it aloud in co...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
29 Nov 2023
Gender-based Violence
I am pleased to open this debate for my party, and I welcome the Parliament taking the chance to discuss this crucial issue during the international 16 days of activism against gender-based violence campaign. As the minister has noted, this year’s theme in Scotland is “Imagine...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
28 May 2025
Substance Misuse in Prisons
Kirsten Horsburgh, I do not think that anybody disagrees that there should be diversion from prosecution and that more support in the community is needed for people who have addictions. However, in your evidence, you mentioned the words “punitive sanctions” quite a lot. You ha...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
28 May 2025
Substance Misuse in Prisons
So, you are saying that there needs to be earlier intervention in the community to stop such people going down the route of committing multiple offences, which makes retailers victims, given that such people commit multiple offences before they are eventually sent to prison.
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
04 Mar 2026
Subordinate Legislation
Going back to the issue of capacity, I think that everybody agrees that diversion from prosecution is a good thing, and it is something that we want to look at, where we can do it and where it is working. However, the figures that we have been sent show that more than 1,000 mo...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Committee
18 Feb 2026
Subordinate Legislation
I have just one question on the two unused offences. They have been removed from the regime, so where do those offences now fall?
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
18 Feb 2026
Subordinate Legislation
Where do the two unused offences that have been removed now fall? I think that you said in your opening statement that, in the final year for which there are figures, two offences had not been used and will now be removed from the regime. Where will they now fall?
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
10 Jan 2024
Management of Sexual Offences Cases
Do you anticipate that the setting up of the court will cause further delays in the judicial system?
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
07 Feb 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
What training would you expect parties involved in the sexual offences court to undertake? How would that be different from the trauma-informed practice set out in part 2 of the bill?
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
07 Feb 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Will those who will be working in the sexual offences court get more training than what is set out in part 2 of the bill?
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
30 May 2024
Post Office (Horizon System) Offences (Scotland) Bill
As my colleagues have said, the Scottish Conservatives welcome this long-overdue legislation and its expedited process, and we support mass exoneration of the Scottish victims of this appalling scandal. It is right that we act quickly to correct as best we can this shameful ep...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
12 Nov 2025
Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27
The Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Act 2025 includes a range of provisions that might be expected to impact on resources, such as the proposed sexual offences court. What stage of planning are your organisations at in preparing for the implementation of the ...
Sharon Dowey Con Chamber
29 Nov 2023
Gender-based Violence
There is no spare time and my speech is full of points that I want to make—sorry. If offenders believe that the police do not have the resources to monitor or pursue them, that will not help women. If offenders think that the punishments for crimes are fairly soft, that will ...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
10 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Pauline McNeill touched on some of the things that I was going to cover. I have looked at the financial memorandum and the costs of the bill. We have heard throughout about the resources that it will take to create the new court. Do you think that table 14 in the financial mem...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
17 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Although it has been suggested that other parts of the court estate could be used, you would still want cases to have the prominence that comes from them being heard in the High Court.
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
17 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Good morning. I agree with a lot of what you have just said. I am concerned that we spend too much time tying ourselves up in legislation when there might be small changes that we could make just now that would make a huge impact on survivors, one of which would probably be im...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
17 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
But will that not run the risk of creating more delays in the court system? Will reducing the number of buildings that can be classed as part of the specialist court not have those sorts of unintended consequences?
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
04 Dec 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
We would be changing the system by creating a stand-alone court. However, if all that we need to do is to ensure that everybody who takes part in such trials has that extra level of training, so that they are all specialists, we could do that within the current estate and syst...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Committee
04 Jun 2025
Subordinate Legislation
I will continue Pauline McNeill’s line of questioning. Can you explain the restitution fund a wee bit more? The court can impose fines that are paid directly to the victim. Is the restitution fund in addition to that? If the court imposed a fine it would be paid directly to th...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
17 Jun 2025
Topical Question Time · Criminal Records (Transgender Prisoners)
This is clearly a shambles. We know that dangerous male offenders have gamed the Scottish National Party system to serve their sentences in women’s prisons, and now they are getting their criminal records wiped. The chair of the EHRC said that the law that the Supreme Court ru...
Sharon Dowey Con Chamber
16 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
In drafting the amendment, my intention was to allow a statement to be read aloud in court if the victim requested that. Victims do not have that choice at the moment. It would mean that either the victim could read it, if they requested to do so, or they could get the judge o...
Sharon Dowey Con Chamber
16 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
At the moment, there is support from Scottish Women’s Aid and Victim Support Scotland, and there are people in the court who help victims along the way. If we should be directing funds towards that to make sure that we deal with victims in a trauma-informed way, that is someth...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
28 Jan 2026
Portfolio Question Time · Prison Estate (Sex Segregation)
I recently received a letter from Angela Constance, the justice secretary, in which she said two things: that the Scottish Government accepts the Supreme Court ruling and that the guidance for prisons “does not need to be changed.” I will clarify that. The Scottish Governmen...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
26 Jan 2022
Budget 2022-23 (Committees’ Pre-budget Scrutiny)
I am pleased to speak in the debate on behalf of the Public Audit Committee. As members will know, the committee has an important scrutiny role to play in examining whether the Scottish Government and other public bodies spend public money efficiently and effectively. Key to o...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
21 Sep 2023
Online Child Abuse, Grooming and Exploitation
The internet has been a positive force in so many ways. It has made information more accessible, helped our economy to grow and given people new ways to communicate—but there are many downsides and negatives to our increasingly online world. Of all the difficulties that the i...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Committee
27 Sep 2023
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Ms McCloy has already answered much of my question on the reasoning behind changing the jury size. We are going from 15 to 12 jurors and when we had 15 jurors, if three stood down or were sick, we could still run the trial with 12. Now, we are going to have 12 jurors, but if t...
Sharon Dowey Con Chamber
08 Nov 2023
Cashback for Communities
Mr Brown and Ms Clark have been in the justice section for a lot longer than I have, so I would want to see more detail on that. At present, all the moneys from the proceeds of crime in Scotland do come back to Scotland, so I would want to look at the matter in more detail fir...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
24 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
My concern is financing the whole bill. If we do not fund it properly, we will not be able to implement any of it. I will move on and ask a question about juryless trials. Do you have any concerns about bringing in such a shake-up of the jury system for sexual offences throug...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
21 Feb 2024
Subordinate Legislation
I am wondering about the loophole, as it was highlighted that it could have been an issue. If you had engaged with UK ministers, would you have expected the UK Government to legislate for crimes that might be committed in Scotland? I would have thought that that would come und...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
02 May 2024
Unborn Victims of Violence
Domestic abuse is a despicable and evil crime. It is particularly abhorrent when it also results in harm to a child. I cannot imagine how harrowing it is for a mother-to-be to go through the cruelty of domestic abuse, only for the attack to be made more harrowing because it re...
Sharon Dowey Con Chamber
30 May 2024
Post Office (Horizon System) Offences (Scotland) Bill
Those shouting at the back were not here for the whole debate, so they do not know what was said. As the cabinet secretary said, today shows what we can do when we work together, united in a shared commitment. The scandal has, once again, thrown up in lights the role of the C...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
21 May 2024
Post Office (Horizon System) Offences (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The issue that is at stake demands urgent attention and action from everybody in the Scottish Parliament. Every party must put politics to one side and focus only on delivering for the victims of the scandal and their families. Many excellent contributions were made that, ri...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
12 Nov 2024
Antisocial Behaviour and Antisocial Driving
I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing a debate on this important topic to the chamber. The motion highlights the devastating impact of antisocial behaviour in one small part of Scotland, but—as we all know—it is anything but a local matter. There is not a member in the cham...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
19 Mar 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Amendment 89 seeks to ensure that witnesses are given information on the special measures that are available to them in all cases. It also means that, where victims of certain sexual offences request to give their evidence in a particular way, that must be how they give their ...
Sharon Dowey Con Committee
21 May 2025
Non-fatal Strangulation
In this morning’s evidence, we have heard how serious non-fatal strangulation is. However, in the submissions from Police Scotland and COPFS, we see a lot of concerns about the possible detrimental impacts and unintended consequences of bringing in a stand-alone offence of NFS...
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Committee

Criminal Justice Committee 26 March 2025

26 Mar 2025 · S6 · Criminal Justice Committee
Item of business
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

We do not even have the costs or a correct financial memorandum. The initial cost for the set-up of the court was £1.4 million, and there are recurring costs. We have already agreed to the victims commissioner, but it was going to cost £640,000 to implement that and the recurring costs would be around £615,000. For the court, there is a one-off cost of £2 million and recurring costs of around £1 million. If that is, indeed, new money coming into the system rather than being taken off victims charities, which has been raised as a concern, how many bairns’ houses would we be able to buy with £2 million? The recurring costs of £1 million would keep them going. Taking that measure would make a huge difference to victims of sexual offences. Given the recent statistics on sexual offences against under-16s, that would be a better use of our money, because it would provide support and trauma-informed practice in dealing with youngsters, which would help them to provide solid evidence to get those who are guilty of those horrible crimes convicted and put in jail.

That, in my opinion, would be a better use of money, and I have real concerns about the sexual offences court. It sounds great, but how will it work in reality, and how will it be put into practice for solicitors, lawyers and everyone else who works in the system? Concerns have been raised about the practicalities of defence solicitors being available to meet the national jurisdiction of the sexual offences court. Simon Brown of the Scottish Solicitors Bar Association pointed out that fewer than 500 defence solicitors are working in Scotland and called it “a dying profession”. It seems to me highly unlikely that enabling the courts to sit at 38 locations across Scotland could be made to work in practice when defence solicitors already have demanding workloads and would face increased travel and other expenses if they were to attend the new court.

The same would apply to sheriff court staff, who would likely be transferred or redeployed to the new court. The costs associated with redeploying 25 clerks, as well as other court staff, to support the sexual offences court is estimated at £235,000, and the cost of regrading sheriff court clerks to work in High Court procedure for the new court is expected to be around £465,000. I do not believe that those costs are justifiable when it is perfectly possible to achieve the same aims by integrating trauma-informed practice in the existing court structure and creating a new division in our existing courts.

As will be discussed in more detail later, survivors of sexual crime have made it clear to the committee that they have real concerns about the perceived downgrading of rape trials if they are moved from the High Court to a new sexual offences court. Rape survivor Ellie Wilson said:

“Rape is one of the most serious crimes in Scots law; such cases are only ever heard in the High Court. That solemnity is sacred, and it is important that we maintain it.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 17 January 2024; c 4.]

Rape survivor Sarah Ashby similarly told us:

“I would not like for such cases to be dismissed or for us to be made to feel that they are any less significant than they are. When you get the information through that the trial is going to the High Court, there is an element of realising how important that is.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 17 January 2024; c 43.]

If that is how survivors feel, we should listen to them.

That is also the position of the Faculty of Advocates and of experienced lawyers such as Tony Lenehan KC. We have a hierarchical court system for very important reasons, and I am greatly concerned that creating a crossover between two distinct levels in that system might have unintended consequences that will cause more harm than good.

It is also unclear how the divisions between High Court and sheriff court cases will operate in the new court. The bill provides for the merging of High Court and sheriff court cases, to be heard by judges and sheriffs collectively as judges of the sexual offences court. Concern was raised by the Law Society of Scotland, which highlighted the impact that that could have on the sentencing process by potentially increasing the sentencing powers of sheriffs sitting in the new court.

My concern is that the creation of a new sexual offences court sounds good on paper but would do little in practice to address the real issues in our court system or to deliver the changes needed to help victims, particularly regarding the delivery of improved trauma-informed practice. That is despite survivors such as Anisha Yaseen telling us:

“It does not matter how much legislation you throw at this, because the issue is the culture. Nothing will change—no matter how many things you put into place—without a change in culture.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 17 January 2024; c 41.]

I agree with that, which is why I do not support the creation of the new court and will move the amendments in Russell Findlay’s name.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Audrey Nicoll) SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the 11th meeting in 2025 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have received no apologies. Agenda item 1 is continued considera...
The Convener SNP
The first group is on jury size and verdicts. Amendment 146, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 147, 72 to 74, 92, 148 to 150 a...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
Good morning. I acknowledge that members have taken significant time and great care to scrutinise the evidence and consider their positions on part 4 of the ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
You have just said that you are “satisfied” that the jury size can go back to 15 and that that will not make a material difference. Could you tell us on what...
Angela Constance SNP
Yes. Mr Kerr and other committee members will be aware of the substantial jury research that was undertaken in 2019. That was a significant piece of scholars...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Angela Constance SNP
I will after one sentence. The qualified majority option with most support, including from the senators of the College of Justice, was one in which at least...
Katy Clark Lab
You might well be coming on to the point that I will put to you, which is the evidence that the Lord Advocate gave to the committee. The Lord Advocate wrote...
Angela Constance SNP
It goes without saying that I am very aware of the Lord Advocate’s position on the issue, which she outlined to the committee. However, I must also be mindfu...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Good morning. In case it is not obvious, I should say that my amendments in this group were submitted some time ago, pretty much right after stage 1. If I am...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Good morning. My amendment 92 would require a jury to deliver a unanimous guilty conviction or, where that threshold was not met, allow a supermajority of 10...
Angela Constance SNP
Forgive me for intervening, but I should say, for clarity, that, although we have changed our position on the size of the jury, we have not at any point chan...
Sharon Dowey Con
Thank you for that clarification. It still does not fill me with confidence that the Scottish Government has a clear vision, supported by concrete evidence, ...
Katy Clark Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Sharon Dowey Con
I will just finish this paragraph, and then I will come back to you. If the research led the Government to support changing the size of the jury, does it no...
Katy Clark Lab
I agree with Sharon Dowey that the Scottish Government is coming forward with proposals without what she calls “concrete evidence”—I would call it a lack of ...
Sharon Dowey Con
I would say that, at the moment, none of us can put forward a proposal that is completely based on concrete evidence, because of the lack of evidence that we...
The Convener SNP
The mock jury research, which the cabinet secretary alluded to this morning, was an extensive bit of work. I also point out that, at stage 1, we not only too...
Sharon Dowey Con
I agree that we had the opportunity to consider it, but we are making radical changes to the whole legal system in Scotland, and the fact is that mock juries...
The Convener SNP
I open up the debate to other members.
Katy Clark Lab
Thank you, convener, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I agree with the cabinet secretary that, when we make changes of this nature,...
Liam Kerr Con
I am genuinely very interested in what you are saying. What do you suggest that we do? We are faced with a bill that will do things and with various amendmen...
Katy Clark Lab
Pauline McNeill spoke earlier about some of the work that could be done over the next few years if some of the amendments that we will consider later today a...
Liam Kerr Con
I thank all my colleagues and the cabinet secretary for their guidance this morning. I am very worried about the decision that we have been asked to make, wh...
Pauline McNeill Lab
You have outlined a position that is broadly similar to mine, which is that you do not want to go with a simple majority. Would it make sense for the Governm...
Liam Kerr Con
I absolutely share Pauline McNeill’s concern about the lack of research. To go back to my intervention on Katy Clark, whatever we do today, we are making a d...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I appreciate that you were not on the committee, but a couple of things came out in evidence in relation to the English judicial system. That system involves...
Liam Kerr Con
I hear that, and I freely concede that the committee’s report looks at the retrial issue and says that further evidence and consultation is needed. Indeed, t...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I go back to an earlier intervention that my colleague Katy Clark made on Sharon Dowey, who talked about a lack of evidence. Would you not concede that your ...
Liam Kerr Con
I say to Ms Mackay, with respect, that there is no evidence for the assertion that she has just made.