Hansard

Like other members, I thank the committee and the clerks for preparing the stage 1 report on an important piece of legislation. It is helpful for those of us who are considering the bill but were not part of the committee that the report was so well put together.

I support legislation that would actively seek to support debt management strategies. The convener, Claire Baker, set out well the contributions that the bill could make. I do not think that I have read anything that suggests, or spoken to anyone who suggested, that some of the proposals that other members have talked about have ever been seen as open to abuse rather than positive steps.

Scottish Labour will support the bill at stage 1 at decision time, as we agree with its general principles and aims. The introduction in legislation of a mental health moratorium is welcome. It is right that people who are suffering from poor mental health are provided with the greater protections that members have spoken about. Having read the stage 1 report, the evidence and the SPICe briefing, along with having discussed the matter with members of the committee, it is clear to me that that would be a positive and welcome step.

Scottish Labour is also supportive of the proposed two-stage approach to the moratorium period, with an open-ended first phase that would allow an individual to focus on recovery from a serious mental health condition rather than exacerbate the problem with continuous debt worries. Prioritising the mental health of the individual in such situations is paramount, as other members who have spoken to people with lived experience have said. We believe that we have found common ground with the Government on that.

As members know, citizens advice bureaux across the country provide high-quality debt advice free of charge to people in their time of need. A witness from one of them said:

“We must recognise that, when someone has a mental health crisis or when their mental health is so bad that they need to take time out and pause, that is not the time to think about their debts.”—[Official Report, Economy and Fair Work Committee, 25 October 2023; c 9.]

We ought to listen. That means not only establishing the moratorium in legislation but explaining how it will operate in practice. Some of the questions that members have asked the Government so far have related to that.

On that point, I find myself in full agreement with the committee’s recommendations. As Daniel Johnson mentioned, Scottish Labour shares the committee’s concerns about the lack of detail on how the moratorium will operate in practice and its view that there must be sufficient time to scrutinise detailed proposals. That would be helpful, as many other members have said. The bill leaves a lot of detail to be laid out in regulation. Those regulations should be provided in draft form before stage 3.

I appreciate that, in his letter to the committee responding to the stage 1 report, the minister acknowledged the committee’s concerns and suggested that he will seek to address them. I look forward to his comments on that. However, it is important to note the evidence given by South Lanarkshire Council, which noted:

“It, therefore, is not clear, at this point, who will be able to use a Mental Health Moratorium, how an application will be made and what effect it will have or how long it will last.”

Clarity on that would be helpful for people who will have to deal with the situation. There is undoubtedly a concern. The Scottish Government has set out a well-intentioned and well-supported proposal, but where it lacks detail, it is fair to say that there is still a fair amount of work to be done to address the concerns that the committee, other stakeholders and members in the chamber have raised.

Furthermore, eligibility in relation to the moratorium is another clear area where we believe that the Scottish Government ought to revisit its position. As it stands, only those who are receiving compulsory treatment would be eligible for a mental health moratorium. I know that a couple of members mentioned that, and they are far more familiar with the exact wording, but my understanding is that the approach is thought to be not proportionate to the scale of the problem. I agree with the committee’s proposal that the criteria should be widened. Going back to a statement that I made earlier, I think that it would be helpful to use clearer terms so that people understand it. I also understand that there has never been any evidence from other areas that the moratorium has been widely abused, so I think that it would be helpful and that it could be managed well.

As the minister noted in his response to the stage 1 report, early indications from the consultation suggested that support for some areas of this legislation is not widespread and there are concerns about the entry criteria. It is welcome that the minister has recognised those concerns and will move forward with them.

In calling for an extension of eligibility, we recognise that that would require an expansion of debt advice services. As other members have mentioned, it is all very well for us to recognise that we might want to change the legislation, but we know that debt advice services are quite stretched. Those who work in the debt advice sector are already working to capacity. They must be given the training and support that are required to properly deliver the reforms as they come through the different stages and are passed in the Parliament.

Citizens Advice Scotland believes that there should be more partnership working across mental health and money advice services, and a lot of members would agree with that. That could be achieved by embedding money advice services in mental health settings or by working closely with local community teams and groups. An important part of any legislation is how it works in practice. The community-based approach can be applied across various disciplines and to tackle various issues, but I am strongly of the opinion that this is a key area in communities and that those most in need would feel the benefits.

The points about the uprating of the allowances that were mentioned by the convener are quite important. I do not have time to go into them, and I am not on the committee, but from reading about it in the papers, I think that it would be important for the Government to look at that.

In concluding, I reiterate my party’s support for the general principles of the legislation. The key aims of the bill are well intentioned and are shared across the chamber. We have identified that stakeholders broadly support it. I hope that the minister will address some of the issues that have been raised by the committee and by members in the chamber today. I again thank the clerks and the committee for the stage 1 report.