Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129

Current MSPs

415

MSPs ever elected

13

Parties on record

2,354,908

Hansard contributions

1999–2026

Coverage span

Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Showing 60 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.

Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

I have a follow-up question. I am concerned that the exemption in section 6 of the bill, which includes rough shooting, will undermine the wider purpose of the bill because, essentially, it allows for more than two dogs to be present during an activity that involves flushing w...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

I thank the members who have lodged the amendments in this group. I will be supporting amendments 1, 3, 5, 7 and 13, in the name of Ariane Burgess, as they would remove the exception for management of foxes and mink below ground—an activity which I am not assured can meet high...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Are you saying that you are confident that the use of a relay—two dogs, followed by two dogs, followed by two dogs—would be caught by the legislation and would not be permissible?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

I have a question about enforcement—I will be guided by the convener if he feels that it does not fit here. We have discussed the enforcement of the section 6 exception relating to no more than two dogs being used for sporting activity, and we have been talking today about ro...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Chamber

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

No interventions. I also agree with animal welfare organisations that question why the bill permits the use of birds as a method of killing. It is not credible for the Scottish Government to suggest that the killing of an animal by a bird of prey rather than by a dog is bet...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

That sounds slightly different to what Leia Fitzgerald was saying. I understand that it is related to the activity, so that shooting a wild mammal that has been flushed by no more than two dogs would not be an offence. I understand from what Amy Hogarth is saying that if a sho...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Last week—it might have been earlier; the discussions are all merging together—we heard that the use of dogs will be tied to a specific activity. That is the intention—that is, the revised intention—of the bill. If I have correctly understood the evidence that we have heard, i...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

The bill allows for a licence to use more than two dogs to be obtained under specific circumstances. Rachael Hamilton reminded us that the committee heard evidence last week from Ian Duncan Miller opposing 14-day licences due to the administrative burden that that would cause ...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

I want to follow up on Jim Fairlie’s question. I understand that addressing animal welfare concerns is a motivator of the bill. How is it that multiple sets of one or two dogs flushing to guns leads to higher animal welfare outcomes than a single pack of more than two dogs flu...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

I expect that we will come on to this in more detail later, when we discuss enforcement, but it sounds as though you are saying that, as long as there are enough humans present to have plausible deniability, we could continue to see packs of dogs flushing foxes, if people can ...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

I have two follow-up questions about the number of people and the number of dogs on a shoot. First, the convener said that, on a rough shoot, dogs are typically—or might be—managed by beaters or others who are not shooting. Is that a practice that you accept is part of a rough...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

There might be five sets of one or two dogs flushing in close proximity to one another on a rough shoot. If a fox or a wild mammal is in that area, how will that lead to higher animal welfare than if there were the same number of dogs working as a pack?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Thank you for your time today, minister. I have a quick follow-up question on the discussion that you had with Alasdair Allan earlier about the definition of “pack”. I believe that you said that, for the purposes of the bill, more than two dogs would be taken to be a pack. Is ...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

As I understand it, the intention of the bill is to uphold the highest standards of animal welfare while balancing that with the need to control and manage wildlife. My understanding is that the primary reason for the sporting activities is neither animal welfare nor wildlife ...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

In circumstances in which dogs are managed by the shooters—as I understand it from Ms Fitzgerald’s response to Beatrice Wishart—shooting wild mammals that have been flushed by someone else’s dog or dogs would be an offence, and the shooter’s dog does not have to be their perso...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

It is important that we are clear that there is a difference between wildlife control and the issue in the bill, which is hunting with dogs. I object to animals being chased and killed by dogs. There are other ways to control animals. I draw the member’s attention to that poin...

Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab Committee

I thank our witnesses for coming today. The Scottish Animal Welfare Commission’s report makes recommendations around minimising and monitoring welfare risks, specifically on the presence of a veterinarian when dogs are racing, for the “collection of independent data on injur...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

And would that have been with more than two dogs?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Could there be a sort of relay flushing, with one dog flushing to another dog, then to another dog and finally to the shooter? How would you keep track of that mammal and know that it had come into contact with only two dogs?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

In what way will having only two dogs prevent enjoyment?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Would that be possible with just one or two dogs?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Mr Ewing did say that he would consider reducing the shoot to only two dogs due to fears about vexatious accusations.

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

I support amendments 113 and 124, in the name of Colin Smyth, which seek to exclude relays as well as packs. In England, such practices have been observed being used as a loophole to continue mounted hunts, and it is important that we prevent such a loophole here. I cannot su...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

You have said that you do not use dogs to hunt foxes. Have you found in topography such as those areas that your approach has fallen short?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

There is some concern among wildlife campaigners that the exceptions are broad and cover a lot of circumstances. Will you take this opportunity to confirm that the intention of the bill is to prohibit all use of dogs to hunt wild animals and that any exceptions will be applied...

Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab Chamber

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

As a member of the Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee, I begin by thanking the committee’s convener and deputy convener for their facilitation of a robust series of scrutiny sessions on the Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill, and the committee clerks for t...

Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Minister, you mentioned earlier that the fear of being chased is part of the animal welfare concern, and I understand that the aim of the bill is to balance animal welfare with wildlife control. Why is there an exception for hunting with dogs in section 6, where the primary pu...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

I thank all members who have lodged amendments in the group. I will support amendment 110, in the name of Colin Smyth, and I urge other committee members to do the same, because I think that it would clarify the legislation. I will not support amendment 131, which is in the ...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

I am afraid that I cannot support amendments 69 to 71 and 97 to 99, in the name of Edward Mountain, or amendments 36 to 39, in the name of Rachael Hamilton, as they would allow the use of any number of dogs. I will support amendments 114, 120, 125 and 128, in the name of Coli...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

I will support amendments 148 to 155 and 168 and 169, in the name of Màiri McAllan, as they will create an exception for relieving the suffering of injured wild mammals and for searching for dead wild mammals without exceeding the two-dog limit. On that basis, I cannot support...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Good morning. I have a supplementary question that relates to Jim Fairlie’s question about an approach to fox management that involves pre-emptively killing foxes on the basis of a belief or understanding that foxes in general have been known to harm livestock. That is one app...

Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab Committee

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

The current provisions seem to make exceptions for the tail docking of working dogs and the declawing of cats. In the light of those exceptions, are you satisfied with the legislation? Does it go far enough?

Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I have a supplementary question for Barrie Wade. You said that some licensing conditions have negative animal welfare implications. Can you explain what you meant by that?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

So, when you say that it is a welfare issue, you mean in relation to the dog, because it will be tired from being down there so long and you feel that it would be ineffective.

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

The other solution would be to not send the dog down, I suppose.

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I have a supplementary question for Ian Duncan Millar. I want to check that I have understood the point that you were making about the exception for a 14-day licence. Were you saying that the reason that you oppose that is that, in a particular season, it would be required alm...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Good morning. I have a question about population control. We have heard that the killing of foxes is necessary to control the population. Does RSPB’s evidence base show that routine killing of foxes has been found to be an effective means of population control?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Thank you; that is very clear. At the start, you said that your approach is similar to the seven ethical principles for wildlife control, and you also mentioned that you use shooting. Can you outline a couple of other measures that you deploy for controlling predators?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Are there any methods that do not involve killing the animal? That is what I was getting at.

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

If you had an issue with foxes, for example, would you try other steps before shooting?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Has having a lethal method as the last resort impeded your ability to maintain and improve biodiversity and protect livestock, where necessary?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I have a brief question for RSPB Scotland. Does any of the land that you manage contain dense forestry or gorse?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Is that because your evidence is that foxes are not the primary predator of the species that you trying to protect in those areas?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I had a supplementary question, but the moment has passed.

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Apologies, convener—I am just finding my question.

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Would you like to give a view on the ethics of either approach?

Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Good morning, witnesses. Thank you for coming. Are you satisfied with the definition of hunting? We have heard calls for it to be clarified with an expanded list of related terms such as “stalking”, “flushing” or “pursuing”. What is your view on that?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Thank you. There has been a suggestion that there should be strict liability under section 2 of the bill, whereby a landowner, occupier or dog owner would be liable—

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I thought that we were somewhere else earlier, so I apologise if my previous supplementary questions were off topic. Will the minister outline the different circumstances in which the Scottish Government considers it appropriate to hunt a wild mammal using a dog under the exc...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

One witness said that they would have to apply for licences repeatedly throughout a given season. There is a concern that a few loopholes remain. I accept the Government’s intention, but I am not sure that the bill will achieve it.

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Please forgive me if this is outlined elsewhere and I have missed it, but will you explain in what circumstances you envisage a licence being issued? Is it intended that there will be regular reviews of the licensing scheme to ensure that it meets its purpose?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Are you saying that the detail will be in the bill at stage 2 or is that something for when the bill becomes an act? I am not sure about the process.

Mercedes Villalba Lab Chamber

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I will take no interventions. The Scottish Government has been clear that the bill seeks to address inconsistencies and ambiguities in the language contained in the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002. Those inconsistencies and ambiguities often undermined attempts...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

I seek clarification. The Scottish Government’s stated aim is to pursue the highest possible animal welfare standards, so can we get an explanation as to why the bill has ended up having an exemption for sport? How does the Scottish Government square the hunting and killing of...

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Is sport predator control?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Now that we have had an opportunity to review the written evidence that we received last week—there was a significant amount—I, too, have some outstanding confusion after today’s session with the bill team. As long as we have a balance of groups coming in, I think that it woul...

Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

I am a Labour Party list MSP for the North East Scotland region.

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Alex Hogg talked about the different breeds of dog that are used in different activities to flush different kinds of prey. Are foxes ever flushed on a rough shoot?

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Would foxes be included in the definition of ground game? 09:30

Mercedes Villalba Lab Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Does it follow that the absence of hounds does not necessarily rule out foxes having been flushed and killed in that activity?

← Back to list

Committee

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee 16 November 2022

16 Nov 2022 · S6 · Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Item of business

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Villalba, Mercedes Lab North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I have a follow-up question. I am concerned that the exemption in section 6 of the bill, which includes rough shooting, will undermine the wider purpose of the bill because, essentially, it allows for more than two dogs to be present during an activity that involves flushing wild mammals, whereas that is not permissible for flushing foxes. The rationale seems to hang on the idea that, on a rough shoot, groups of more than two dogs can be prevented from forming a pack. I am interested in hearing a bit more about the evidence base for why that is possible in rough shooting circumstances but not when foxes are being flushed. Why, in one instance, is it believed that the level of control over dogs will prevent them from forming a pack, losing control and potentially killing the animal whereas, when foxes are involved, the claim is that it is not possible to control dogs and prevent a pack from forming? To an outsider—I have not been on a shoot—it seems that foxes and rabbits are wild mammals. I am not clear on the distinction and the rationale behind the exemption.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Finlay Carson) Con

Good morning, and welcome to the 30th meeting in 2022 of the Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee. I remind members who are using electro...

Hugh Dignon (Scottish Government)

It is a fairly broad term that encompasses a lot of different sorts of shooting. I suppose that you could characterise it as being informal in its nature com...

The Convener Con

There would be no intention for a dog to chase a rabbit, hare or pheasant; it is all about flushing. The purpose of a rough shoot is to shoot and not to have...

Hugh Dignon

The Convener Con

On that basis, is it intended through the bill to ultimately or effectively ban or prevent rough shooting, as you have described it?

Hugh Dignon

No, there is no intention to do that at all. The bill seeks to regulate the use of dogs to flush mammals. Where that is happening as part of rough shooting, ...

The Convener Con

Would you describe an impact on rough shooting as an unintended consequence of the legislation?

Hugh Dignon

I am not sure that “unintended consequence” is exactly the right phrase, because, if someone’s version of rough shooting involved using a number of dogs—more...

The Convener Con

Was your understanding of rough shooting complete enough to allow you to understand exactly what the implications of the two-dog limit would be on rough shoo...

Hugh Dignon

It is fair to say that we have looked more closely at it and that we have considered how the provisions of the bill would apply to what happens on the ground...

Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con

To be clear, Mr Dignon, on what basis did you form your idea of what a rough shoot is? Did you go on one? Did you seek witnesses? Did you watch a rough shoot...

Hugh Dignon

Yes—I did all those things. I have been on rough shoots before, I have friends who rough shoot, I looked at it on YouTube, and I talked with stakeholders.

Rachael Hamilton Con

Will you confirm that it is not your intention to restrict rough shooting through the scope of the bill?

Hugh Dignon

No, it is not. As I have explained to the convener, the intention is to regulate the use of dogs being used to hunt mammals, to ensure that they are not allo...

Rachael Hamilton Con

When you looked into what rough shooting is or formed your understanding and shared it with your bill team, did you get information that said that dogs that ...

Hugh Dignon

I understand that it is primarily gun dogs that are used, but I do not suppose that it is exclusively gun dogs. A variety of dog species might be used, but I...

The Convener Con

Finally on that topic, it is reassuring to know that you did your research into rough shooting. Did you do that research prior to the bill being introduced, ...

Hugh Dignon

I was reasonably familiar with it before, but we certainly went back to look more closely at the issue following the concerns that were raised. 10:15

Ariane Burgess (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green

What was the rationale for taking a different approach to the number of dogs when it comes to rough shooting compared with other types of hunting with dogs? ...

Hugh Dignon

The first thing that I would like to say is that we are not making an exception or changing the provisions of the bill in any way to accommodate rough shooti...

Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP

On the back of that, can you take us through the issues that were considered in reaching an approach whereby there is a difference in the number of dogs that...

Hugh Dignon

Perhaps I have not been successful in getting this across, but we are not changing the number of dogs that can be used for rough shooting. The same provision...

Mercedes Villalba (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab

I have a follow-up question. I am concerned that the exemption in section 6 of the bill, which includes rough shooting, will undermine the wider purpose of t...

Hugh Dignon

As I have said, there is not a specific exemption for rough shooting. If someone was flushing a fox with two dogs and, separately from them, someone else was...

Mercedes Villalba Lab

I expect that we will come on to this in more detail later, when we discuss enforcement, but it sounds as though you are saying that, as long as there are en...

Hugh Dignon

I would take issue with the phrase “plausible deniability”. If someone is operating a pack of dogs, it is clear that that is what is happening. In practice, ...

Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) SNP

To clarify that, did the Government give any consideration to the point that Mercedes Villalba brought up about what is different about people working with t...

Hugh Dignon

I think that that is the reality of it, but the law is not setting out to differentiate between different types of dogs. It is talking about the number of do...

Jim Fairlie SNP

Does that come back to the point that, if you have the intent to flush, you will use a particular type of dog? I know that the bill does not specify the type...

Hugh Dignon

Yes. As I said, that is the reality of it. It is not my job to do this, but I am guessing that that is the sort of thing that might be taken into account in ...