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Showing 32 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Grangemouth (Project Willow)

Everything that we have spoken about today seems achievable, but the problem is how we make the economics of some of these things stack up. For example, SAF has been mentioned. How will the cost of SAF compare with what we pay just now? I cannot remember whether it was Jan Ros...

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

As you say, SAF is a commodity that can be imported. If you are an airline, you may be mandated to use 3 per cent SAF; if you can import it cheaper than using home-grown SAF, so to speak, would you not do that instead?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

In my questions, I will continue to ask about project willow, which the deputy convener raised with you. There are two SAF projects in project willow. One is about first-generation SAF—the HEFA one—and the other is about third-generation SAF. Should we still be pursuing the fi...

Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Yes. I want to pick up on the point that the cost of a flight from London to Dubai could increase by 3 to 12 percentage points. That seems a huge range. Is there a reason why it is so big? Also, would the SAF percentage be 1 per cent or 3 per cent? What mixture of SAF and norm...

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

What are other countries doing when it comes to SAF production? We mentioned Europe, but what about China and the US? From our papers, I can see that we import a huge amount of used cooking oil from China. Does China not require that for its own SAF production? What are other ...

Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

I have a question for Simon McNamara. To go back to the economics of SAF, should we, as passengers, expect to pay increased costs for air travel in the future, as we use more and more SAF?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

I will move on to my next question. We have heard that, for third-generation SAF, we need green hydrogen and a functioning carbon capture industry. Is there a risk of the Scottish SAF industry relying on those uncertain net zero industries, minister?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

SAF is three to five times more expensive than aviation fuel—that is what we heard from witnesses last week. I guess that that will have to be passed on to passengers. Should we expect air travel to become more expensive as we move to SAF, given that we will be using more expe...

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

I am just struggling to understand why it was put on hold. When we know that SAF is so important and project willow has two SAF projects, why was it decided to park that group at that time? Given that it is all about looking at supply chains and everything else, we probably ne...

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Grangemouth (Project Willow)

Okay. Looking at the cost of green hydrogen, a climate change report that was written on behalf of the Scottish Government says: “It is more costly to produce hydrogen in Scotland as compared to all other case study countries. This is because the cost of offshore wind generat...

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

So, with 100 per cent SAF, we are looking at an increase of 3 to 12 percentage points.

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Are we talking about giving up some agricultural land that we use for food production and changing it to SAF production?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Will the bill produce the policies that we need to stimulate both demand for and supply of SAF?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Therefore, you do not so much see SAF as the future for your airline, but other technologies, because you are doing shorter journeys?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

To go back to the economics, if you were moving just to SAF, what would that mean for the prices?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Doug, you said that the key to all of this is getting the cost of energy down. How should we go about doing that? You are right to say that we have an abundance of energy, but if we look at the contracts for difference prices for offshore wind, we can see that it is not cheap....

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Would zonal pricing have meant that SAF production was much more attractive for Scotland, because there could have been cheaper electricity closer to where the source was?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Would zonal pricing have made a difference for SAF production in Scotland?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Would zonal pricing have made a difference for SAF production in Scotland?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Ralph, do you have a view on whether zonal pricing would have helped Scotland with SAF production?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Ralph, you mentioned Acorn. Where would that fit into the SAF jigsaw, so to speak?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

I guess that, in Acorn, you would capture that SAF would be produced, but the carbon would still be released when the fuel was burned by the aircraft, would it not?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

How far away do you think that we are from producing SAF at Grangemouth? Is it still five or 10 years away, or is the period shorter than that?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

The UK Sustainable Aviation Bill will produce levies from traditional aviation fuel that can be spent on SAF. Will Grangemouth be able to bid for that money for a HEFA project or will it be excluded under the proposals in the bill?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Can that money be spent on first-generation SAF, or is that excluded from what the bill covers?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Yes. What do you think is the biggest risk to successful SAF production in Scotland?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Do we need the Acorn project in place before we can produce SAF?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

I guess that there will be a levy that will have to be paid, and airlines will have to use more SAF, which is more expensive than aviation fuel. Therefore, we should expect air travel to become more expensive, because of some of the subsidies and levies that will be coming thr...

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

I think that we heard last week that SAF is three to five times more expensive than aviation fuel.

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Yes, thank you, convener. I want to ask about the SAF working group again. How many times did it meet, and when did it last meet?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Were most of the people who were on the SAF expert working group redeployed or working on project willow instead, or were those different people?

Douglas Lumsden Con Committee

Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill

Minister, do you think that the SAF working group should be reconvened?

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Committee

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee 13 May 2025

13 May 2025 · S6 · Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Item of business

Grangemouth (Project Willow)

Lumsden, Douglas Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

Everything that we have spoken about today seems achievable, but the problem is how we make the economics of some of these things stack up. For example, SAF has been mentioned. How will the cost of SAF compare with what we pay just now? I cannot remember whether it was Jan Rosenow or Mark Symes who spoke about SAF. Maybe we can go to Mark first.

In the same item of business

The Convener Con

Our second item is the first of two evidence-taking sessions this month on plans for the future of Grangemouth refinery. Refining there has ceased, and the U...

Dr Nigel Holmes (Hydrogen Scotland)

Thank you very much for the opportunity to give evidence today. I head up Hydrogen Scotland, which is the trade association for hydrogen activities in Scotla...

The Convener Con

You mentioned Storegga and the fact that it has a planning application in Speyside. I have an interest in a fishery on the River Spey. In case there is any d...

Dr Graeme Hawker (University of Strathclyde)

Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to speak to the committee today. I am perhaps a little bit less on the fence than Nigel Holmes is. I will sa...

Professor John Andresen (Heriot-Watt University)

I am a chemical engineer from Heriot-Watt University. I am colour agnostic about hydrogen. However, if the purpose is to produce heat and electricity, it is ...

The Convener Con

Thank you. Nigel Holmes, I want to understand your comment about the cost. I seem to remember reading that, to create hydrogen from electricity, you lose abo...

There are various stages in producing hydrogen and then turning it back into useful energy at the point at which you use it. The general performance of the e...

The Convener Con

It kind of answers the question, but once the electricity is put into the national grid, there will be a national pricing structure for it, even if it goes t...

That is true if the hydrogen and the electricity are made and used in the same place. I will give another example of hydrogen production in the north of Scot...

The Convener Con

But if the hydrogen was made in Grangemouth, it would be more expensive.

Absolutely. You might be able to play tricks with the power cost at different times through what is, essentially, grid balancing through the electrolysers. W...

The Convener Con

I think that that is why it seems attractive to me, especially if it gets rid of constraint payments and suchlike, which I think are complete anathema to peo...

Professor Andresen

In Grangemouth, there is already a steam methane reformer, which, I believe, is the largest in Scotland. That would be an easy swap if the hydrogen is not ne...

I do not think that there is a clear case either way. Each of the solutions has implications for the level of storage and transport networks that would be ne...

The Convener Con

Nigel Holmes, you said that you back both horses in this race. Are you sticking to that?

Yes, but maybe for slightly different reasons. I worked at Grangemouth for 15 years—it was for BP and in the chemicals area. A key thing that happened when I...

The Convener Con

Ish. Mark Ruskell has a follow-up question, and then I will come to Kevin Stewart.

Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green

I am interested in the definition of blue hydrogen as low carbon. That depends on carbon capture and storage being in place and working at a certain efficien...

I am not the expert on carbon capture and storage, so that evidence would be better coming from somebody else. When we look at the carbon footprint, it is i...

Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP

Dr Hawker and others have mentioned storage and transportation. Is the current situation, in which the UK Government has failed thus far to update storage an...

The upstream producers are absolutely uncertain about exactly how they will get their product through a system of transportation and storage to end users. Th...

Kevin Stewart SNP

I will turn to Dr Holmes, although you may comment, too, Dr Hawker, if you wish. You mentioned hydrogen being transported from Kintore to Grangemouth. Obvio...

Pipelines are critical to the ability to supply hydrogen at scale. When we are talking about small-scale hydrogen production—1MW or 10MW, which is the scale ...

Kevin Stewart SNP

I understand the point about repurposing and using existing infrastructure where possible. However, I am asking whether, at this moment in time, the regulato...

The regulation of what happens in gas pipelines is a reserved matter.

Kevin Stewart SNP

I think that the UK Government has indicated—I would need to confirm this—that it will make a decision on pipelines carrying a blend of hydrogen either late ...

Kevin Stewart SNP

Does anyone else have anything else to add? If not, I have one tiny final question. You have spoken about a move, but we have been waiting for a long while ...

That is a very good question. The only project that I can think of that appears to be making some headway in that regard is the Aldbrough hydrogen pathfinder...

Kevin Stewart SNP

It is taking too long, basically.