Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
13
Parties on record
2,354,908
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Showing 60 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
31 Jan 2024
UK Covid-19 Inquiry
Summarising 17 years of deceit and cover-up in no more than five minutes is near impossible but, thanks to the motion that was lodged by the Scottish Conservatives, we can begin dissecting the shocking revelations from the UK Covid inquiry in Scotland so far. The pandemic was...
Pam Gosal Con Chamber
07 Jan 2025
Topical Question Time · Child Sexual Abuse
Although recent attention has been on grooming gangs in towns down south—I echo Kemi Badenoch’s calls for a national inquiry—it would be wrong to think that we are immune to the problem in Scotland. Major police investigations—operation dash and operation Cotswold—have uncover...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
06 Jun 2023
Adam Smith (Birth Tercentenary)
As shadow minister for further and higher education, I am extremely honoured to be contributing to today's debate celebrating 300 years since the birth of the father of economics, University of Glasgow alumni and professor, Adam Smith. I thank Michelle Thomson for bringing ...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
11 Dec 2025
British Sign Language (Scotland) Act 2015 Inquiry
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives and also to speak as a member of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. I thank the committee and its clerks for putting together the report, and I also thank everyone who provided evide...
Pam Gosal Con Chamber
28 Apr 2022
First Minister’s Question Time · Police Scotland (Domestic Abuse Training)
Today, Caroline Lyon, the mother of Louise Aitchison, who was murdered in 2020 by her boyfriend, who had convictions for abusing women, is here in Parliament. She is calling for a swift fatal accident inquiry, after Police Scotland admitted to 18 separate errors, which meant t...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
14 Jun 2022
Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The Cass review on gender identity services in England and Wales is on-going, but its interim report says: “There has not been routine and consistent data collection ... which means it is not possible to accurately track the outcomes and pathways that children and young peopl...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Committee
02 Nov 2022
Colleges Regionalisation Inquiry
Good morning, minister and officials. My question follows Bob Doris’s question about closing the funding gap. Not only do colleges get less per student than universities, but the Improvement Service’s local government benchmarking framework shows that average gross spend per ...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
02 Nov 2022
Colleges Regionalisation Inquiry
We discussed the high drop-out rates in colleges earlier. Would the minister consider changing how data is collected, so that, when people switch colleges or courses or transfer to other colleges, that does not count as a drop-out?
Pam Gosal Con Committee
02 Nov 2022
Colleges Regionalisation Inquiry
Lastly, I speak to a lot of businesses, and colleges are vital for businesses’ journey to getting the right skills. As a visitor to the committee, I cannot emphasise this enough: please think about all the questions that have been asked today by colleagues. We need to invest i...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Committee
07 Feb 2023
Inquiry into Race Inequality in Scotland
Good morning, panel, and thank you for your opening statements and the information that you have provided on the matter. The minority ethnic employment gap is growing, and unemployment is higher for minority ethnic women in particular. What do you think that the problem is th...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
07 Feb 2023
Inquiry into Race Inequality in Scotland
I have a question about what you just said. You and Jatin Haria talked about how there is not enough implementation, and you have just spoken about how mentoring is one of the actions that could be taken. Is that being done by the Government or by third sector organisations, o...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
07 Feb 2023
Inquiry into Race Inequality in Scotland
Jatin or Danny, is there anything that either of you would like to add?
Pam Gosal Con Committee
07 Feb 2023
Inquiry into Race Inequality in Scotland
Thank you, convener. We invited a variety of witnesses to today’s meeting, representing different minority ethnic groups. Would you say that the policy development distinguishes between different minority ethnic groups? I will give an example. What works for a Sikh woman is ...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
07 Feb 2023
Inquiry into Race Inequality in Scotland
It is similar, but it is a slightly different subject. Pinar Aksu, I saw the protests that you mentioned on television. I was not there, but it was terrifying to watch some of the words that came out of people’s mouths. That is happening in Scotland. I was born here, and I w...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
07 Feb 2023
Inquiry into Race Inequality in Scotland
You talked about facing racism every hour, Pervin. I have spoken to people about that and I come from an Asian background. Racism is there and people sometimes ignore it. We are parliamentarians and this is a committee. The Scottish Government will be listening as well. What m...
Pam Gosal Con Chamber
02 Mar 2023
General Question Time · Homelessness
Thirty-six people have needlessly died while in temporary accommodation in six hotels across Glasgow. Campaigners argue that hotels are not equipped to support people who are in a crisis, so vulnerable individuals are missing out on access to potentially life-saving drug and a...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
13 Jun 2023
College Regionalisation
As shadow minister for further and higher education, I am honoured to close today’s debate on the college regionalisation inquiry on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. I thank the committee for producing a detailed and much-needed report. Ten years on from college regional...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
05 Sep 2023
Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)
Thank you, convener. I will stick to the matter of the surge in community participation and empowerment. It has been described, as you have probably heard, as a “tick-box exercise”. Diving a bit deeper, the committee inquiry heard about a “a lack of visibility of the CPP in ...
2. Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
07 Jan 2025
Topical Question Time · Child Sexual Abuse
To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its progress in tackling child sexual abuse, in light of reported calls for a full United Kingdom national inquiry into child sexual abuse by grooming gangs. (S6T-02268)
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Committee
13 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Good morning. Respondents to the committee’s call for views highlighted many issues with administering legal aid. Do you have any proposals that could help tackle such issues in the short term? Pat, do you want to go first?
Pam Gosal Con Committee
13 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Thank you. Aaliya, do you want to add anything?
Pam Gosal Con Committee
13 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Thank you for that. I have a couple of supplementary questions. The Scottish Women’s Rights Centre has highlighted the issue of access to civil protection orders for survivors of domestic abuse. It says that, often, the burden of accessing legal protection falls on survivors, ...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
13 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Aaliya Seyal, do you want to add anything to that?
Pam Gosal Con Committee
13 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Another issue is that black, Asian and minority ethnic women face additional barriers, as sometimes the relevant authorities find it difficult to understand the cultural context of their cases. What is being done to ensure that those women, many of whom are extremely vulnerabl...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
13 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
It is good that you have mentioned that, because I know that, in BAME backgrounds, jewellery and some other property would not be thought of in that context. Have you had many cases in which that situation has arisen? I have spoken to people in a lot of those communities in co...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
13 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Thank you.
Pam Gosal Con Committee
13 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Good morning. My question is one that I also put to the previous panel. The vast majority of domestic abuse survivors are women and, as the Scottish Women’s Rights Centre has said, survivors of domestic abuse often struggle to access civil legal aid and many of them need to pa...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
13 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Thank you. In response to an earlier question, you spoke about not having the time to look at cultural or community differences and how to adapt to them. Could you expand a bit more on that?
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Committee
20 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Good morning. Thank you for the information that you have provided so far. We recently became aware of the case of a woman who was turned down not by one, not by two, but, shockingly, by 116 law firms that would not take up her divorce case. As you know, it takes a lot for a ...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
20 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
I have one more question. You said earlier that the model of legal aid for women and children in Scotland is not fit for purpose and is not demand led. Fiona McPhail spoke about the system in England, which is not means tested. Do you think that we should have such a system fo...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
20 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
At times, the partner holds all the financial records and controls the finances. Women especially may not hold all the information and may have to be means tested.
Pam Gosal Con Committee
20 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Does anybody want to add anything?
Pam Gosal Con Committee
20 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
I have one more question for Dr Zazai about the cultural side of things, because that issue was raised last week. You spoke about language barriers. Many women—because it is usually women—are left in a no-man’s-land in cases of domestic abuse that involve housing. They do not...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
20 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
My next question is about bureaucracy and access. Dr Marsha Scott, who was on the previous panel, said that even the United Nations has raised the issue of the depletion of legal aid lawyers in Scotland. How can we talk about a human rights approach to administering legal aid ...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
20 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Thank you. That was some really good detail, Professor Boyle. Dr Christman, would you like to add anything?
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Committee
27 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Good morning. Thank you for the information that you have provided so far. Over the past two weeks, witnesses have called for financial eligibility criteria to be expanded. Financial thresholds have not been updated in line with inflation since 2011, which was 14 years ago. M...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
27 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Thank you, Marie-Louise, that is really helpful. My next question is on means testing. Witnesses who attended the committee over the past two weeks called for the removal of financial eligibility requirements for certain types of cases where domestic abuse is a factor. Survivo...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
27 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Thank you for that information. I have one final quick question. It is worrying that you say that, although this committee and the Social Justice and Social Security Committee have heard evidence on it in the past two weeks, not everybody knows that the means test has those le...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
27 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Thank you for clarifying that. 10:30
Pam Gosal Con Committee
27 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Good morning. My questions will be a bit long, because I have been pulling together some things that our witnesses have told us over the past two weeks, so please ask me to repeat anything after I have asked my question. Witnesses have called for financial eligibility criteri...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
27 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Thank you—I ask you to please look at that in your reform, because the issue has been brought up in evidence for the past two weeks. People have such a low amount of money, but they do not get advice and assistance. Please look at that, minister. Over the past few weeks, the ...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
27 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
We heard from Colin Lancaster earlier that sometimes there are levers to help survivors. However, as we discussed, there is quite a worrying gap there, especially when it comes to eligibility. I said earlier—and another member touch on this, too—that solicitors and organisatio...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
20 May 2025
Civil Legal Aid Inquiry
Good morning. I thank the witnesses for the information that they have provided so far. Last week, I brought up the issue of abusive partners controlling all the household finances. In many cases, the abused person, which is usually the woman, does not know the household annua...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
Good morning. In the evidence sessions over the past couple of weeks, this committee has heard real-life examples of deaf people struggling, especially in rural areas. Those examples, particularly the ones that we heard in the private session, have been harrowing. Lucy Clark, ...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
The question is around there not being enough BSL support in rural areas. A couple of weeks ago, we heard from a witness who was a survivor of domestic abuse. What should people like that do, especially if they stay in rural areas such as Argyll and Bute? How would they get th...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
The committee has also heard that deaf people are faced with barriers in relation to the issue of poor mental health. Mental health services for people with full hearing are already strained and experience regular budget cuts, and those services are further stretched in rural ...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
On the point about giving that opportunity to children, witnesses have told us that early intervention is key. Do you agree with that?
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
Thank you. My next two questions are for Stacey Gourlay and Rachel Tardito. Have you undertaken any monitoring or assessment of how effective your local BSL plans are? If so, which areas meet the needs for BSL users and which areas may require further work?
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
Stacey Gourlay, do you want to come in on that?
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
Convener, I have one last question, which is question 13. Should I come back in after questions 11 and 12, or would you like me to ask it now?
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
That is fine. Again, this question is for Stacey Gourlay and Rachel Tardito. Another issue that frequently came up was the difficulty of accessing national health services. I have a constituent who has waited months to access audiology appointments through the national health...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
It is good to hear that you are engaging with Falkirk Council and working together. That was one of the issues that came up with witnesses. They felt that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing because they are not working together. You might not know the an...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
Thank you very much.
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
Good morning, Deputy First Minister and officials. Thank you for all the information that you have provided so far. I will turn my question around a little bit because you have been talking about education; I will come in on education first. In private evidence sessions, the ...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
Thank you for that, Deputy First Minister. The people who we heard from said that school teachers should be qualified to level 3 in BSL and that there are opportunities for more deaf or deafblind people to teach or help in the system. Those may be things for you to look at. T...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
Thank you. Lucy Clark also highlighted that many deaf women who experience domestic abuse assume that it is normal behaviour and do not even know what consent means. While working on my Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill, I came across a woman who had slurred speech,...
Pam Gosal Con Committee
17 Jun 2025
British Sign Language Inquiry
At present, that data is not collected when crimes are reported to Police Scotland. Certain data is collected, such as the person’s name and some other details, but details of ethnicity and disability are not collected. That is why my bill seeks to require that data. Thank you...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con Chamber
25 Nov 2025
Urgent Question · Grooming Gangs
I have brought up the issue of grooming gangs several times in the chamber, but, instead of taking real action, the SNP Government has chosen to bury its head in the sand, all in the name of political correctness. Let me give it a news flash. Grooming gangs are a real problem,...
Pam Gosal Con Chamber
27 Nov 2025
First Minister’s Question Time · 16 Days of Activism against Gender-based Violence
I welcome to the public gallery representatives from Women’s Rights Network Scotland and Beira’s Place, along with survivors of domestic abuse. Today, we held a vigil outside the Parliament, remembering the 46 women who have been killed by men in Scotland in the past five year...
Pam Gosal Con Chamber
02 Dec 2025
Violence against Women and Girls
At the same time, the SNP refuses to call for a grooming gangs inquiry, all in the name of political correctness, and chooses to bury its head in the sand as if grooming gangs are not a problem. The problem is not going away, but the SNP keeps kicking the can down the road. Th...
← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 31 January 2024

31 Jan 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
UK Covid-19 Inquiry

Summarising 17 years of deceit and cover-up in no more than five minutes is near impossible but, thanks to the motion that was lodged by the Scottish Conservatives, we can begin dissecting the shocking revelations from the UK Covid inquiry in Scotland so far.

The pandemic was a test of leadership. Political leaders were faced with tough choices, and I am that sure we can all sympathise with that. Decisions were made that affected lives, livelihoods, education and resilience. We can only trust that, when the storm passes, political leaders can give an account of why decisions were made. However, an SNP Government that is addicted to secrecy has made that a near-impossible task.

Now, brave families have questions to which they may never get the answers. Just today, we found out that Nicola Sturgeon was economical with the truth when she told the media in 2021 that no evidence would be off limits. We now know that she had already destroyed it, although, amazingly, she still had her WhatsApp exchanges with her one-time best buddy, Alex Salmond.

John Swinney deleted his messages with Nicola Sturgeon, and former chief of staff Liz Lloyd did the same. There was a clear and concerted effort by key decision makers to hide crucial messages.

We now know that vital gold command meetings were kept secret from some of the most senior ministers at that time, including Kate Forbes. Much to no one’s surprise, ministers claim that they have no minutes for those meetings. It is inconceivable that civil servants did not take notes at those meetings—where are those notes?

Instead, the bereaved will have to put their faith in Nicola Sturgeon’s selective memory and politically driven decision making. Sadly, the evidence that remains shows that decisions made by Nicola Sturgeon and her closest colleagues were most likely drawn up on the back of a fag packet. It was not just poor decision making—it was their motivation.

The public will ask, “Surely the Scottish Government would not have allowed grievance to drive decision making while lives and livelihoods were on the line?” However, that is indeed what happened. Nicola Sturgeon’s chief adviser wanted to create a

“good old-fashioned rammy”

with the UK Government and to call for things that it could not do. At this point, it is reasonable to conclude that the Scottish Government’s obsession with independence borders on dangerous and clouds its judgment.

It came as no surprise to hear that Humza Yousaf had been “winging it” in his time as health secretary—that much was obvious. Much more surprising was that, despite the continued assertion of moral superiority, Humza Yousaf was all too happy to take advice from Jason Leitch, the chief clinical adviser, on how to bend the rules that they were imposing on everybody else.

It was enlightening to see what a laugh SNP ministers had at the expense of the public, joking about how they would delete messages and subvert freedom of information requests. It does not surprise me that the SNP derives so much pleasure from avoiding public scrutiny. After all, it has treated the public and the Parliament with utter contempt. All this from the self-proclaimed most transparent party in Scotland—aye, right. If that were the case, it would commit to reconvening the COVID-19 Recovery Committee so that the Parliament could scrutinise the revelations, and it would refer itself to an independent investigation.

The UK Covid inquiry has laid bare the culture of secrecy within the SNP Scottish Government—it has rotted from the top down. That culture runs through ministers past and present. It has also confirmed what everyone could already see—that, even during the global pandemic, the SNP Scottish Government still tried to manufacture as much conflict and political grievance as possible. It aimed for independence at any cost, even when lives were on the line.

The SNP played a blinder. It had many people fooled, but grieving families want justice, and they want answers—they are nobody’s fool.

16:03  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12010, in the name of Douglas Ross, on United Kingdom Covid-19 inquiry revelations. I invite members who ...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The Covid-19 pandemic affected people across the globe, and every single person in Scotland. The public were forced to spend months effectively restricted in...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
The member talks about people being serious. Does he think that Boris Johnson was serious enough about the pandemic?
Douglas Ross Con
We had a question in the office about how long it would take the SNP to mention Boris Johnson—I had gone for earlier than four minutes, in fairness. Let us ...
Douglas Ross Con
Mr Mason will defend the SNP Government for using the pandemic for purely political purposes.
John Mason SNP
I ask again whether the UK Government and Michael Gove did not do exactly the same.
Douglas Ross Con
No, they did not. In this inquiry, we have seen that the top spin doctor to the former First Minister was looking to start a fight with the UK Government. Re...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
I will not be the only person in the chamber who lost someone during the pandemic and who will be finding this display quite despicable. We are serious polit...
Douglas Ross Con
This is the actual debate. I respect Ruth Maguire. She stood up and could not defend her own Government wanting to use a pandemic to boost independence. I am...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Shona Robison to speak to and move amendment S6M-12010.5. 15:12
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance (Shona Robison) SNP
The Covid-19 pandemic touched every life in Scotland. Throughout it, the Scottish Government’s absolute priority was always to keep the people of this countr...
Douglas Ross Con
Does the Deputy First Minister accept that, although everyone wants the inquiries to come up with conclusions that can be used in the future, their work is b...
Shona Robison SNP
I do not believe that the work of the inquiries is being hampered. I believe that the inquiries are being robust, they will get to the truth of the matter, a...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Shona Robison SNP
Briefly.
Brian Whittle Con
The cabinet secretary said that there should be no political interference during the Covid inquiry. Why then, as soon as Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak stood ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Speak through the chair.
Shona Robison SNP
There is no comparison. Interruption. Let me turn to the matter of informal messages, such as WhatsApps, which Douglas Ross has focused on. The Scottish Go...
Douglas Ross Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention on that point?
Shona Robison SNP
Not just now. That fact is demonstrated by the following quote, which was given to the UK inquiry in a witness statement from the Prime Minister, Rishi Suna...
Douglas Ross Con
Will the Deputy First Minister take an intervention on that point?
Shona Robison SNP
In a minute. Of course the material that the Scottish Government has provided to the UK inquiry to date includes emails, messages, submissions and advice to...
Douglas Ross Con
If the Scottish Government policy of deleting messages is correct and is so important, why did Kate Forbes as finance secretary not know about it, and why di...
Shona Robison SNP
I have been clear in setting out the policy, which was about making sure that any salient points were transcribed to the official record and then other infor...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I advise members that there really is no time in hand, so members will have to stick to their speaking time allocations and accommodate interventions within ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
As we debate the culture of secrecy and cover-up that has been laid bare in the UK Covid-19 inquiry, let us remember that at the heart of this scandal are th...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
Does Jackie Baillie agree with the Conservatives on these benches that we should reconvene the COVID-19 Recovery Committee so that we can get some transparen...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Although I have no objection to that, I am unclear how a committee would do any better than Lady Hallett is doing, in fairness. Having been on the Salmond co...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Ms Baillie, please resume your seat for a second. There is far too much background noise. Let us show respect and listen to the person who has the floor.
Jackie Baillie Lab
Thank you. I was coming to why I think that those actions are a potential breach of the law. Officials appear to have deliberately attempted to communicate i...