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Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

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1999–2026
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Showing 60 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
10 Mar 2022
Social Care Staff Pay
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will try to use my outside voice, just in case the sound is still quiet. Care workers perform an extremely challenging, complex and skilled role. They look after our loved ones, often when they are unwell, vulnerable or coming to the end of the...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
18 Feb 2025
Employer National Insurance Contributions
Throughout the debate, many members have mentioned the various sectors of the economy that will be impacted. I will leave the intricacies of elasticity, among other things, to Liz Smith and Michelle Thomson, but I believe that the immediate impact on the health and social care...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
22 Jun 2021
MND Scotland (40th Anniversary)
I, too, thank Bob Doris for bringing the debate to the chamber. Yesterday was global MND awareness day, so I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. I pay tribute to MND Scotland and the late Gordon Aikman for their incredible efforts to secure better care...
Gillian Mackay Green Chamber
29 Feb 2024
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Absolutely. I thank Emma Harper for mentioning SAMH in particular because, for many of those carers, the mental health aspect—the trauma of being unable to get to their loved ones—exacerbated the situation, and that led to the want and need for Anne’s law in the first place. ...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
24 May 2022
Health and Social Care
I echo the comments of those who have spoken before me about the dedication of our health and social care staff. The NHS is currently set up as a national sick service. Too much care is still provided in hospitals, and treatment services are prioritised over prevention. Meanw...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
15 Mar 2022
Marie Curie Great Daffodil Appeal 2022
I, too, thank everyone caring for people at the end of life, throughout the pandemic and beyond. Anyone who has seen Marie Curie nurses caring for a loved one in the final days and weeks of their life will be keenly aware of the incredible work that they do. They give people a...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
28 Jan 2025
Investing in Public Services Through the Scottish Budget
I welcome the commitment to investing in our public services, particularly in my portfolio of health and social care. Far from being a burden on the economy, growth in public spending as a proportion of the economy has had a persistent positive link with gross domestic product...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
09 Mar 2022
Care Home Visiting Rights (Anne’s Law)
I thank Jackie Baillie for securing the debate, and I pay tribute to Anne Duke’s family for their campaigning on this issue. Social care has experienced some of the worst impacts of the pandemic. Covid-19 infections have devastated many care homes, and residents and their lov...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
30 Mar 2022
Keeping the Promise Implementation Plan
The pandemic has been an extremely difficult time for many care-experienced people and their families and wider support networks. According to the Promise’s “Change Programme ONE” report: “it was the children and families the current ‘care system’ doesn’t work for, who faced ...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
06 Nov 2024
Keeping the Promise
I, too, thank the minister for holding this hugely important debate. Like others, I reaffirm the Scottish Greens’ commitment to achieving the Promise. I do not think that anyone could argue with what the Promise is at its heart. The recognition that important structural and...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
28 Nov 2023
Female Participation in Sport and Physical Activity
I follow other members in thanking committee members, clerks and witnesses for their participation in what was a very interesting and engaging inquiry. As many members have already covered, the barriers to engagement and to on-going participation in sport for women and girls ...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
22 Jun 2022
Social Care Charges
The cost of living crisis is placing incredible pressure on people across Scotland. Inflation hit 9.1 per cent today. People are being plunged into poverty by cuts to universal credit and the benefit cap. They face rising energy bills because of the Tories’ failure to implemen...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
04 Jun 2024
Health and Social Care
I begin by extending my gratitude to the workers who make up our NHS—those who spend their lives making sure that we get the care we are entitled to when we need it. That includes every single worker who is involved in the running of our services, from nurses and GPs to cleane...
Gillian Mackay Green Chamber
06 Nov 2024
Keeping the Promise
It has been a good debate—it has been a challenging debate for us all, but it has certainly been a good one. I absolutely agree with the minister that we need to ensure that care-experienced people feel that we are committed to change and that, as a Parliament, we are committ...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
29 Jan 2025
Health and Social Care Workforce
I will start by apologising to the chamber. My Surface has had a moment with Zoom over the past five minutes, so I currently have my phone propped up while I try to make this speech. I hope to get the issue fixed ahead of my closing speech. I thank Labour for bringing this im...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
06 Feb 2025
Miscarriage Care
I begin, as others have done, by acknowledging the deep and often unspoken grief that miscarriage and stillbirth bring to women and their families. I thank midwives and their teams across Scotland. Despite it being a relatively common experience, miscarriage can be profoundly...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
30 Nov 2022
Stroke (Recovery)
I am really pleased to have brought this debate to Parliament, as it is on such an important topic to me. As many members know, almost two years ago, my mum died a week after having a stroke. My grandpa had a stroke that left him with aphasia, and my gran had a stroke and tra...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
08 Feb 2023
National Health Service Dentistry
I, too, am pleased that we have time today to discuss dentistry. Dentistry is a part of the health service that often gets lost when we are discussing wider health issues. It is a hugely effective preventative health measure that involves not only teeth and gum health, but fin...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
27 Nov 2024
Social Care
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate and will reiterate points that have been expressed by colleagues. It comes as no surprise to us that the social care sector is in crisis and that we must address the pressures as a matter of urgency. The ambitions and efforts b...
Gillian Mackay Green Committee
07 Sep 2021
Scottish Government Priorities (Health and Social Care)
Representatives of the social care sector have raised concerns that, although there is an NHS recovery plan, there is not a recovery plan for social care. With legislation coming on a national care service, services still need support in the interim period until a national car...
Gillian Mackay Green Chamber
18 Jan 2023
National Health Service and Social Care
That commitment has never disappeared from our work in government. Interruption. The difference between the Greens and Labour is that we are in government, working as hard as we can to push for uplifts, of which there have been several in the past year. Interruption. While Lab...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
27 May 2021
Covid-19
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I, too, welcome you to your new role. As is traditional with first speeches, I take a few seconds to thank all who campaigned and voted for me, and my wonderful family and partner for all their support. It is a privilege to be here representing...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
10 Nov 2022
Alternative Pathways to Primary Care
As many other members have done, I thank the clerks, my colleagues on the committee and the people who gave formal, informal and written evidence to the committee. The way in which services are delivered has changed significantly over the past few years, with both primary car...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
08 Feb 2023
Social Care
Having listened to the debate so far, and in the interest of introducing some consensus, I say that I believe that we all want to achieve the same things: better outcomes for people who receive social care, better terms and conditions for those who work in social care and bett...
Gillian Mackay Green Chamber
30 May 2023
Hospital at Home Programme
I can say that such closures absolutely would do that. The programme can also positively impact on social care delivery. Patients losing their care packages due to hospital admission can lead to delayed discharges, and patients can be stuck in hospital when they do not need t...
Gillian Mackay Green Chamber
20 Sep 2023
Neonatal Services (Lanarkshire)
I need to make some progress. I am genuinely sorry. The report was produced in conjunction with clinicians, and it is worth stating that the recommendations on the new neonatal model of care are underpinned by strong evidence that population outcomes for the most premature a...
Gillian Mackay Green Chamber
02 Nov 2022
National Care Service
I am really sorry, but I have a lot to get through. I heard about carers being sent from one end of the local authority area to the other because a manager who did not know the area thought that the trip from Bo’ness to Larbert could be done in 10 minutes, only for the carers...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
22 Sep 2021
Scottish Ambulance Service
I, too, thank our ambulance crews and all those working in emergency care and the wider NHS for continuing to work extremely hard in very difficult conditions. The stories of extremely long waiting times for ambulances make for distressing reading and I cannot imagine the dist...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
29 Feb 2024
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
As a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I echo my colleagues’ thanks to the clerks and those who gave evidence to the committee. There is no doubt that there are glaring inequalities in social care across the country. The independent review of adult social...
Gillian Mackay Green Chamber
27 Nov 2024
Social Care
I do not know what hope the debate will have given to anyone who is concerned about their care or that of a loved one. They will have watched MSPs shouting at one other and talking about parliamentary process rather than the vision that we should have for social care reform an...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
07 Sep 2022
Institutional Racism in Sport
I thank Kaukab Stewart for bringing this important debate to the chamber and for her passionate speech. The “Changing the Boundaries” report is damning in its conclusions; as other members have said, the wealth of evidence was undeniable. It is worth noting that Plan4Sport, wh...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
24 Jun 2021
Coronavirus (Extension and Expiry) (Scotland) Bill
I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak in today’s debate. Scotland currently has the highest rate of infections among all the UK nations. Yesterday, we recorded the highest daily number of cases since the start of mass testing. Despite the incredible success of the vac...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
18 May 2022
Supporting Carers (Cost of Living)
As many others have done, I thank all social care workers and unpaid care workers for everything that they do. As the co-convener of the cross-party group on carers, I will focus on the impact of the cost of living crisis on unpaid carers. At CPG meetings, I have heard at fir...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
26 Oct 2022
National Health Service (Winter Support)
This will, once again, be one of the most difficult winters in the history of our NHS. We have a workforce that is already tired, rising Covid-related admissions and a backlog of delayed and more complex treatment. We also face a battle to reduce A and E waiting times. As alw...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
23 Nov 2022
Primary Care
There is no doubt that primary care is under immense strain. Survey results from the BMA warn that 81 per cent of practices said that demand for their services was exceeding capacity. We know that, as a result of the pandemic, people are presenting later, often with more compl...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
30 Apr 2024
Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the general principles of the Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for its scrutiny of the bill over the past few months. I am also grateful to everyone who gave...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
01 Feb 2022
World Cancer Day 2022
I, too, would like to thank Jackie Baillie for bringing the debate to the chamber. I also thank those organisations that have provided briefings. My thoughts are with everyone who has lost a loved one to cancer, those who are going through treatment and those who live with the...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
03 Nov 2022
Allied Health Professions Day 2022
I thank Carol Mochan for securing this evening’s debate and all the allied health professionals in the gallery and across the country. The debate gives us an important space to discuss the valuable work of allied health professionals the length and breadth of Scotland. As we ...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
28 Sep 2022
National Health Service Waiting Times
This remains an extremely difficult and demanding time for our health and social care systems, which is why the impact and legacy of Covid should never be underestimated. Months of delayed appointments, cancelled procedures and the frustrations, worries and problems that they ...
Gillian Mackay Green Committee
15 Nov 2022
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Despite there being significant gaps in social care data, there is no requirement in the bill for care boards to collect data or report on performance. What data should be collected to inform social care reform and the development of a national care service? I know that that i...
Gillian Mackay Green Committee
20 Dec 2022
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
There might be many people who transition through different tenures of housing during their social care journey, whether they be disabled people or people who are approaching the end of life and who might move from, for example, a family home into supported accommodation—shelt...
Gillian Mackay Green Chamber
15 Jun 2021
Women’s Health
I offer my congratulations to Evelyn Tweed and Siobhian Brown on their first speeches. Many colleagues have raised during the debate the importance of women in the NHS and social care workforces. Again, my heartfelt thanks go to every single one of those women. I do not think...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
19 May 2022
Long Covid
The true extent of the impact of long Covid is still unknown, and it may remain so for some time. As we have heard, it has been estimated that around 100,000 people are living with long Covid in Scotland. However, that figure does not adequately capture the devastating impact ...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
06 Dec 2022
Carers Rights Day 2022
I thank Paul O’Kane for bringing this important members’ business debate to the chamber. I also thank carers up and down the country for all the work that they do in looking after their loved ones. At some point in our lives, any one of us might have to provide care. We have...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
29 Feb 2024
Marie Curie’s Great Daffodil Appeal 2024
I, too, thank Paul Sweeney for securing the time in the chamber for this important annual debate. The great daffodil appeal, which is the most prominent awareness-raising appeal for Marie Curie, runs throughout March. I take the opportunity, as others have, to thank the staff...
Gillian Mackay Green Committee
14 Mar 2023
Female Participation in Sport and Physical Activity
A part of the inquiry that I am interested in is how we build a movement toward sport for life, which is probably difficult to do for the age group that you were looking at. How can we better facilitate changes in activities that naturally happen during people’s lives—such as ...
Gillian Mackay Green Committee
30 May 2023
Female Participation in Sport and Physical Activity
Absolutely. We also encourage sporting figures to be more open about stress, anxiety and depression; we have come a long way in that. People who have those mental health conditions may not necessarily come under Scottish Disability Sport’s remit, but will participate in organi...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
15 Jun 2022
Health and Wellbeing of Children and Young People
I welcome this debate on the health and wellbeing of young people and thank all those who gave evidence to the committee. During committee sessions, we heard a wealth of evidence about how the pandemic has impacted on children and young people and the services that care for t...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
06 Mar 2025
Reducing Drug Harm and Deaths in Scotland: People’s Panel Report
As I begin to wind up on behalf of the three committees, I echo the cabinet secretary’s sentiment and send the love and best wishes of the chamber to Christina McKelvie. I am pleased to have the opportunity to close this important debate on behalf of the Health, Social Care a...
Gillian Mackay Green Committee
29 Mar 2022
Alternative Pathways to Primary Care
In a previous meeting, I asked witnesses about the inverse care law and how, as the system becomes more complicated to navigate, with people being expected to self-refer to different services, we mitigate the risk that those with lower levels of health literacy might become le...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Committee
28 Jun 2022
Health Inequalities
Good morning to the panel. Last week at committee, I asked Dr Peter Cawston, of GPs at the Deep End, whether services are trauma informed. He highlighted that “Tackling ... stigma involves every person who works in a health and social care setting ... having a better understa...
Gillian Mackay Green Committee
22 Feb 2022
Social Care
Audit Scotland highlights in its briefing that there is “No individual social care record in the same way that each member of society has an NHS record.” It says: “This makes it difficult to assess whether social care is meeting people’s needs.” What are your views on the ...
Gillian Mackay Green Committee
15 Nov 2022
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
To a certain extent, there is some anticipatory care planning in places. We heard that the Granite Care Consortium is moving towards an outcomes-focused model, rather than collecting data on when people clock in and out, because that is binary and does not give a flavour of th...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Committee
20 Dec 2022
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Thank you, convener. I will pop both my questions into one to save some time. Good morning, minister. We have heard from witnesses different opinions about what the bill could achieve in the medium term. Could you provide practical examples of the impact that the bill could h...
Gillian Mackay Green Chamber
08 May 2024
Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People (Cass Review)
We have to be aware that the Cass review was a review of services and treatment pathways in NHS England that differ from those in Scotland. As many members have said in the chamber previously, not all the recommendations will be applicable to Scotland and some might be irrelev...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Committee
11 Jun 2024
Social Care (Self-directed Support) (Scotland) Act 2013 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)
Good morning, everyone. We have heard continually about regional variability in the implementation of SDS, and the care experience survey that was published on 28 May reveals significant variability in the satisfaction and experiences of people who receive care. What specific...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Committee
08 Oct 2024
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Good morning. We have been discussing a few of the things that everybody has some concerns about, but there are parts of the bill that people agree should be implemented. There have been delays in the implementation of Anne’s law—we have heard from relatives of care home resid...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Committee
27 Jan 2026
Budget Scrutiny 2026-27
The Coalition of Care and Support Providers in Scotland is concerned by an apparent change in policy on social care pay. It has stated that, instead of increasing the available funds to fund an increase from £12.60, which is the real living wage for 2025-26, to £13.45, which i...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Committee
20 Jan 2026
Draft Climate Change Plan
Good morning. The Scottish Care response to the Scottish Government consultation on the draft circular economy strategy in January 2026 stated:“Without targeted support to achieve this vision, care providers will struggle to implement circular practices effectively, risking fu...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green Chamber
01 Jun 2021
National Health Service Recovery Plan
I congratulate the members who are making their first speeches today, including Audrey Nicoll, Emma Roddick, Carol Mochan and Elena Whitham. It is a nerve wracking thing to do, but they all did brilliantly. The depth of talent and expertise in this session’s new intake will ce...
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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 10 March 2022

10 Mar 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Care Staff Pay
Mackay, Gillian Green Central Scotland Watch on SPTV

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will try to use my outside voice, just in case the sound is still quiet.

Care workers perform an extremely challenging, complex and skilled role. They look after our loved ones, often when they are unwell, vulnerable or coming to the end of their lives. I offer my heartfelt thanks to care workers for all that they do.

For too long, the enormous contribution of care workers to our society has gone unrecognised. They were classed as low skilled by the United Kingdom Government, and we all know that that is simply not true.

It was international women’s day on Tuesday, and the theme was “break the bias”. In light of that, it is worth noting, as many other members have done, that with women making up approximately 85 per cent of the workforce, the failure to properly appreciate social care workers is linked to how we value caring roles, which are traditionally performed by women. I was struck by the words of Fiona Collie from Carers UK, who said in evidence to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee:

“We often talked about the important role that the national health service plays, but we talked less about the significant role that social care plays in maintaining people’s independence and enabling them to live good and positive lives ... The role of social care has been very hidden.”—[Official Report, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, 22 February 2022; c 2.]

It is right that social care has now become a national focus—that is long overdue. The pandemic may have highlighted the undervaluation of care workers, but that has been a problem since long before any of us had heard of Covid 19. Care staff were often working in difficult conditions before the pandemic, contending with low pay, long hours and insecure work, but for the past two years, they have also had to deal with a dangerous virus that has devastated care homes.

The interim findings of a workforce survey conducted by Scottish Care were published in September. One finding was that the number of hours that staff were working was markedly high, with increasing pressure on them to maintain the same quality of care while working longer hours. Almost 50 per cent of organisations relayed that their staff were working more than 35 hours a week. I am extremely concerned about the physical and mental wellbeing of care workers who have been under such sustained pressure. As we seek to help social care recover from the pandemic, we must prioritise workplace wellbeing. Some care workers may have been traumatised by their experiences and they must be able to access mental health support when they need it.

As we enter the recovery period, we are also creating a new national care service, the cornerstone of which will be improved terms and conditions for staff, with the Greens and the Scottish Government committing to deliver ethical commissioning that promotes fair work. That is vital. The report “Independent Review of Adult Social Care in Scotland” highlighted that

“The current approach to commissioning and procurement is characterised by mistrust, conflict and market forces.”

At the moment, commissioning and procurement processes are largely focused on cost, which can squeeze pay and conditions. Ethical commissioning would shift the emphasis from cost and cover a range of factors, including workforce terms and conditions, investment by providers in training and support for staff, and the quality of care. We must ensure that staff can access the training that they need, as well as opportunities for career development and progression. That will be key to improving both recruitment and retention. That is why we have also committed to a system of national collective bargaining, through which we will deliver improved pay, terms and conditions.

The increase in the minimum wage for adult social care staff to £10.50 is an initial step in improving pay for care workers, but we recognise that the work is far from over, and we will continue towards delivering pay that recognises the incredible work that care staff do.

Once again, I extend my thanks to everyone working in the social care sector. We recognise that care workers’ pay, terms and conditions must continue to improve. We will continue to work towards that, and we will create a national care service in which staff are properly valued and respected.

13:19  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-02777, in the name of Alex Rowley, on the long-standing underpayment of social care sta...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I thank those members who made today’s debate possible by signing my motion. In particular, I thank Willie Rennie and Murdo Fraser for signing the motion all...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate and I recognise Alex Rowley for securing it. He has just outlined the complexity of the care system. My fir...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Alex Rowley for securing what is an important debate, for his considered contribution and for his long-standing commitment to social care. I start m...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Paul O’Kane, who joins us remotely. 13:10
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank my colleague Alex Rowley for securing this extremely important debate and for his powerful speech outlining the issues. I pay tribute to all our care...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Gillian Mackay, who joins us remotely.
The Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care (Kevin Stewart) SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. It was quite difficult to hear Mr O’Kane. I picked up the bulk of what he said, but it was not easy. If we are to hea...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you for your point of order, minister. I noted that the sound was patchy. I am sure that the broadcasting unit has heard your plea, and I hope that it ...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will try to use my outside voice, just in case the sound is still quiet. Care workers perform an extremely challenging, comp...
The Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care (Kevin Stewart) SNP
I thank Mr Rowley for his considered contribution today, and for the tone and tenor of what he outlined. If we took that approach more often in the Parliamen...
Craig Hoy Con
I thank the minister for his commitment to fair pay for the sector. When the Government is changing pay rates in social care, can he tell us what assessment ...
Kevin Stewart SNP
There is a huge complexity to all of this. The two recent pay rises do not come without difficulties. What we have to do, in partnership with others, is ensu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That concludes the debate. I suspend the meeting until 2.15 pm. 13:28 Meeting suspended. 14:15 On resuming—