Committee
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee 27 June 2023
27 Jun 2023 · S6 · Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Item of business
Scottish Government Priorities
Thank you, convener. First, although I have deprived the committee of Fiona Hyslop, I am very glad to welcome her back to the Government in her role as Minister for Transport. I am very pleased to be with the committee today. From all the evidence that the committee takes, you will be aware that we face a number of challenges as a country and more broadly. The climate and nature emergencies are front and centre of those challenges. As I see it, this is the collective fight of our lifetime, and my portfolio centres on that. My portfolio is vast, as you can see from the number of directors who are with me and, equally, from the number of junior ministers who take forward work across the portfolio on a daily basis. I will give an initial reflection. This is the first time that responsibilities for net zero and a just transition have come together at Cabinet level. That reflects my work in rising to the imperative of tackling climate change and, equally, doing so in a way that recognises that the scale and pace of change are extraordinary and that we must ensure that we make decisions that are fair for the economy and society. I will run through some headline priorities before we get into a discussion. On the net zero front, we are halfway there, but the hardest part lies ahead. A significant staging post will be the publication in the coming months of the draft climate change plan, which we are working on furiously. Transport is, of course, the largest source of our emissions. Public transport is a key driver of our net zero goals, and it needs to be available, attractive and affordable. That is one of my priorities, as is decarbonising transport, and we are working with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on the 20 per cent route map. On heat in buildings, we are taking steps to decarbonise new buildings, and we will shortly publish a consultation on proposed bill measures to regulate efficiency and heating sources. The portfolio also covers biodiversity, which includes the twin crises. My colleague Lorna Slater is taking forward a lot of work on that, including on a biodiversity strategy and natural environment bill. She also leads day to day on the circular economy and is taking forward work on a circular economy bill and a litter and fly tipping strategy, among other things. Marine protection also comes within the portfolio. We have had many discussions about highly protected marine areas but, of course, the area is broader than that. We also have the marine protected area network, besides other matters. The just transition is the thread that runs through the whole portfolio. A significant change agenda is before us on account of the emissions reduction targets that the Parliament has set and, more important, in the face of the climate and nature emergency that we face. However, we have to ensure that the decisions that we make are fair, take communities with us and learn lessons from the past. We seek to do that through our discussion papers and the final just transition plans to accompany all that work. However, more needs to be done, convener. It is a very busy policy area. I am happy to answer questions on the vast scope of the transport, net zero and just transition portfolio.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Con
Agenda item 2 is an evidence session with the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Net Zero and Just Transition on the Scottish Government’s priorities that are ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Net Zero and Just Transition (Màiri McAllan)
SNP
Thank you, convener. First, although I have deprived the committee of Fiona Hyslop, I am very glad to welcome her back to the Government in her role as Minis...
The Convener
Con
The vastness of your portfolio is fully understood by the committee, which has a vast remit as well. Sometimes, we struggle to get round to every part of it,...
Ash Regan (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning. Given that the annual emissions reduction target for 2021 was missed, and that Scotland has now missed eight out of 12 annual targets for emiss...
Màiri McAllan
SNP
That is a good point. We always have to assess the progress that we are making as well as look forward to the next targets. Only last week, I made a stateme...
Ash Regan
SNP
In its progress report for Scotland at the end of last year, the UK Climate Change Committee said that it did not see evidence of sufficient action to meet t...
Màiri McAllan
SNP
I might come to my colleague Phil Raines to say something about the monitoring report and the comparison with the CCC report. I welcome the CCC’s guidance t...
Phil Raines (Scottish Government)
The CCC’s criticism of the Scottish Government in December used similar language to its criticism of the United Kingdom Government in its June report. As an ...
Ash Regan
SNP
It did—thank you.
The Convener
Con
In 2021, we were still struggling to come out of the pandemic, and emissions were naturally lower, because fewer people were travelling and fewer things were...
Màiri McAllan
SNP
There is a balance. My officials and I have discussed the question, too. I say from the outset that, when I presented the 1.2 percentage point miss, I was cl...
The Convener
Con
We have seen more people moving back to trains and, hopefully, buses too. If more people are using transport, that will definitely increase emissions. If you...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Green
Good morning, everybody. Are we still on track for a November launch date for the climate change plan?
Màiri McAllan
SNP
Yes. I aim to lay a draft in Parliament in November.
Mark Ruskell
Green
Great. I will go back to the points that Phil Raines raised around critical detail, which was a feature of the UK CCC’s comments. Can you give us a bit more ...
Màiri McAllan
SNP
I will hand over to Phil Raines in a moment. For my part, I see the TIMES model as a well-regarded and exceptionally rigorous tool, which is critical to our...
Phil Raines
The legislation is clear: when we put out the climate change plan, we have to say what the policies are and what the costs and benefits are. Our intention is...
Mark Ruskell
Green
With previous plans, it has been very difficult to understand what is happening in some sectors, as there has been a lack of data and information. It is felt...
Màiri McAllan
SNP
You should certainly come back in on this point, Phil, but I would begin by saying that it certainly does not feel to us like any sector is being given a bye...
Phil Raines
There is absolutely no sector that will be—I do not know whether the Official Report can capture scare quotes—“protected” as such. Just as climate change aff...
Mark Ruskell
Green
Thanks for that. The last area that I want to ask you about is negative emissions technology—comprising bioenergy carbon capture and storage—BECCS. The Clim...
Màiri McAllan
SNP
That is indeed very challenging. It goes back to a point that I was trying to make previously: that no stone can be left unturned. If, for whatever reason, a...
The Convener
Con
I have a couple of housekeeping points. Someone talked about agriculture getting a bye. I remind the committee that I have an interest in an agricultural hol...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
In 2019, the Scottish Government published its second adaptation programme, “Climate Ready Scotland”. In March 2022, the Climate Change Committee’s progress ...
Màiri McAllan
SNP
It is very pertinent that we should discuss adaptation after discussing mitigation. You will be aware of the second Scottish climate change adaptation progra...
Liam Kerr
Con
The Climate Change Committee also called for “urgent implementation of a monitoring and evaluation framework” which will, presumably, become even more crit...
Màiri McAllan
SNP
I will hand over to Phil Raines, but the work is taking longer because monitoring is exceptionally difficult. This goes back to my point about emissions redu...
Phil Raines
I note that the Climate Change Committee recognises that this monitoring and evaluation is new territory. My understanding is that it is doing work at the mo...
Liam Kerr
Con
I am grateful.
The Convener
Con
We have a series of questions from Monica Lennon.