Committee
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 29 November 2022
29 Nov 2022 · S6 · Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Item of business
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage1
I would like to pick up on that. When we visited Granite Care Consortium, the providers themselves were stepping care up and down without having to reference back, which I think Rachel Cackett mentioned earlier, and we saw how important that had been. In the final report, there was also evidence of a reduced number of hospital admissions during the Covid pandemic. I appreciate that there are criticisms and concerns about moving to a national care service but, assuming that it will happen, are there positives that we can take from what you are doing in Aberdeen? Many such approaches could be implemented in the current system but are not, which seems to be where the real problem is. What are the biggest lessons that we can take away from what is currently happening in Aberdeen, as regards a national care service coming into effect and ensuring that other areas are picking up on those strengths?
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Our substantive item of business today is consideration of the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill. We will have two evidence sessions and both panels will...
Geri McCormick (Glasgow City Integration Joint Board)
Currently, all care groups are represented in our integration authority, the Glasgow IJB, and we have a healthy relationship, with contributions and discussi...
The Convener
SNP
You said that the system is working well where you are, and you will want to take that good practice into any new system. Are there opportunities for care bo...
Geri McCormick
It is about facilitating time and providing resources for participation and contribution. It is about accessibility and opening up involvement to individuals...
The Convener
SNP
You are talking about something more inclusive, with the resources being in place for the support that would enable that to happen.
Geri McCormick
Yes.
The Convener
SNP
Sandra, it would be helpful to hear your views on how things are working in Aberdeen city and what opportunities a care board might bring.
Sandra MacLeod (Aberdeen City Health and Social Care Partnership)
In Aberdeen, we had a large review a few years ago of our care-at-home services in particular, which helped us to reshape our approach to strategic commissio...
The Convener
SNP
Aberdeen has been held up as an example of a place where things are being done slightly differently. We visited Aberdeen three weeks ago and met the Granite ...
Sandra MacLeod
We have worked really hard with the Granite Care Consortium and it has been a really positive outcome for us in the city. Picking up on the points that colle...
The Convener
SNP
Before I hand over to my colleagues, I have a question for Rachel Cackett. Rachel, in your submission, you make some points about the notion of care boards a...
Rachel Cackett (Coalition of Care and Support Providers in Scotland)
We have very good relationships with our providers and many of the current IJBs. However, my colleague has just brought up the issue of trust. You said that,...
The Convener
SNP
That is helpful and it is a good start to the conversation about what we need to keep, where the gaps are and what our aspirations are for reform.
Stephanie Callaghan (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
SNP
To pick up on what Rachel Cackett said, how much involvement is there now from community planning partnerships and people with lived experience on local impr...
Rachel Cackett
I suspect that my colleagues in the IJBs will be able to answer that far more fully. We are certainly looking at where providers are engaged and I think that...
Karen Hedge (Scottish Care)
It might be helpful for the committee to know that I used to be a local authority commissioner so I have sat on different seats around that table and have th...
Sandra MacLeod
I want to pick up on a couple of points. The first is on how IJBs are currently involved in community planning partnerships. In our local environment, in Abe...
Stephanie Callaghan
SNP
I would like to pick up on that. When we visited Granite Care Consortium, the providers themselves were stepping care up and down without having to reference...
Sandra MacLeod
I think that it goes back to a key point that someone made earlier, about relationships and having mutual respect and a shared understanding that people need...
The Convener
SNP
Emma, you wanted to come in on something that Sandra MacLeod said.
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Yes, thanks. The time-and-task model came up during the committee’s visit to Dumfries. Euan McLeod, who is from the Dumfries team, said that the team is work...
Sandra MacLeod
A key thing, and one of the big drivers, is moving away from that model. We have done a lot of work locally on care management and in our hospitals, so that ...
Rachel Cackett
The examples that Sandra gave show the human face of social care. The bill is rooted in structure, but those examples show the ways in which social care matt...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I want to follow on from that by pulling some of the threads together and going back to first principles with the Feeley review, which Rachel Cackett mention...
Rachel Cackett
With the bill as it stands, as introduced, my answer would be no—it cannot achieve the aims of the Feeley review. With the bill as it could stand, my answer ...
Karen Hedge
Like Rachel Cackett, we, too, were excited when the independent review reported, and we, too, had done work with members—with everyone and their granny, in f...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I want to push you on your feelings about the distance between the Feeley review and the current bill. Is the bill focusing too much on structure and not eno...
Karen Hedge
Yes. That is partly to do with the consultation process that we have experienced. At Scottish Care’s recent care home conference, our members in the audience...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
SNP
I have a question for Rachel Cackett. You have mentioned self-directed support a couple of times now, Rachel, and it seems to me that you are using it as an ...
Rachel Cackett
I agree with your final statement—it was a great policy with patchy roll-out. There is, therefore, a need to look at how we make a great policy work, without...