Committee
Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee 03 October 2024
03 Oct 2024 · S6 · Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Item of business
Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26
Good morning, all of you, and thank you for inviting me to discuss the Scottish Government’s funding for culture in 2025-26, as part of your pre-budget scrutiny. I am delighted to see some familiar faces across the table, and I extend a warm welcome to the committee’s new members and thank them in advance for their contributions to the invaluable work of the committee. All of us are here because we are passionate supporters of the culture sector, and we value the artists, the creative producers and the cultural workers who generate so much for our local and national economies. Of course, their contribution and the value of culture go beyond mere pounds and pence. Culture and creative expression are the very essence of who we are as individuals, as distinctive communities and as a nation. Cultural participation and engagement is fundamental to the wellbeing of people across Scotland and is vital in allowing us to make meaningful connections with other nations on the world stage. As culture secretary, I regularly speak to many of the cultural organisations that I know are ploughing a significant amount of their time and resource into responding to the challenges of the much-changed operating landscape that we find ourselves in, post-pandemic and post-Brexit. I was particularly appreciative of the recent dialogue that I had with trade union representatives from the Scottish Trades Union Congress, the Scottish Society of Playwrights and Equity about how the on-going pressure is affecting their members, and I was pleased to be able to update them on the progress that the culture fair work task force is making. I am hopeful that the new Administration at Westminster heralds a new era of collaboration across the four nations of the United Kingdom, but we cannot escape the fact that the cost of living crisis and inflationary pressures, on top of our already depleted public finances, make for a challenging fiscal outlook across the board. The Scottish Government has been forced to make significant in-year savings and do more to ensure that it can reach a path to balance in the current and successive years. I fully appreciate that the sector is very concerned about public funding for culture and about what the immediate and longer-term future holds. The sense of uncertainty and deep frustration has been underlined in the written submissions and oral evidence that the committee has gathered to date. I thank everybody who has taken time to articulate their concerns and to share their experiences and their thoughts on what future support for the sector should look like. From the outset, I reassure the sector and the committee that I am doing everything within my power as the cabinet secretary for culture to get the best budget settlement that I can get for culture and the arts. As we set out in “A Culture Strategy for Scotland”, the Government recognises the intrinsic value of culture and the transformational impact that it can have on people right across Scotland. That is why the First Minister restated our commitment to increasing funding for culture so that it is £100 million more annually by 2028-29. That cross-Cabinet commitment has enabled more than £15 million of additional moneys to be released to the culture sector already in 2024-25. That has included the provision of an additional £6.6 million to Creative Scotland, which has enabled it to reopen its open fund for individuals, and provision of an uplift for the bodies that care for our national collections and for our national performing companies. Media reporting and wider speculation have fuelled fears that the plans to provide an additional £100 million for the sector may not come to fruition. However, I want to put on the record here, so that it is absolutely clear, that the Scottish Government has the utmost confidence in the culture sector and is committed to providing significantly more funding for the sector on a cumulative basis. I believe that we have turned a corner in public funding for culture, and our aim is that the culture budget in 2025-26 will substantially increase as a second step towards fulfilling our overall funding commitment of an additional £100 million annually. As a Government, we recognise that it is absolutely fundamental that we have stable and supportive financial arrangements in place, and we remain committed to supporting the sector to fulfil its enormous potential. The trajectory for the new Creative Scotland multiyear funding programme is positive, with the potential for many more cultural organisations to benefit. I am engaged in discussions with Creative Scotland about how best to navigate the operational challenges that are presented by the timing of the United Kingdom Chancellor of the Exchequer’s budget statement on 30 October. Only once we have the necessary practical assurance around the Scottish Government budget for 2025-26 will we be able to set our commitments for the culture portfolio. We will publish our budget on 4 December; it will then be subject to the normal parliamentary processes for approval. I have written, to that effect, to the chair of Creative Scotland this morning and have copied that to the committee. I understand that Creative Scotland is likely to delay announcing the outcome of the multiyear funding process until there is confirmation of the 2025-26 budgetary position. The Scottish Government will work closely with Creative Scotland in supporting the sector through that process. It is clear, now more than ever, that we must ensure that every pound of public funding for culture is wisely invested for maximum impact in the sector, and that the support that is available from across the public, private and third sectors is enhanced where possible. In that way, together, we can strengthen culture and create the conditions for culture to thrive, which is one of the central ambitions that are set out in “A Culture Strategy for Scotland”. As I said before, I want to ensure that the sector can sustain, develop and ultimately thrive and innovate, but it will take time, investment and dedication to achieve that. It will also require prioritisation of activity. In the recent programme for government, the Scottish Government set out the key strategic actions that it believes will best sustain the sector in the future. That work will include a review of existing support for the sector to inform future funding models, as well as exploring other ways in which the Scottish Government can work with partners to grow the overall funding pot for culture, diversify funding streams and support the sector in ways that go beyond funding, to include, for example organisational and business support. That work will help the sector to navigate current and future challenges and to make the most of opportunities for collaborative working. The wider review will include a full review of Creative Scotland as the main distributor of funding for the culture and creative sector in Scotland. As you know, Creative Scotland was established in 2010 as the lead body for the arts, screen and creative industries. It is important that its remit and functions are reviewed, to ensure that it is continuing to meet the needs of the culture sector in a much-altered delivery landscape. The Scottish Government is committed to continuous improvement across all our public bodies, and to maximising the impact of public sector support for the culture sector. The review is a key component of that work. I am delighted by the number of local festivals—as well as our nationally high-profile festivals of international renown—that have expressed an interest in getting involved in the planned festivals partnership. My officials are reaching out to a number of those festivals, and to other individuals and organisations that have an interest in festivals more broadly, to shape the membership agreement of the partnership in the first instance. The partnership will support collaborative working and active learning across festivals where possible and will ensure that the full potential of all our festivals is realised locally, nationally and internationally. The Scottish Government remains committed to improving Scotland’s public services as an investment in Scotland’s future health and wellbeing, equality and prosperity, by strengthening future support for the culture sector. As well as the review of Creative Scotland, we are continuing our public sector reform work with Historic Environment Scotland in order to maximise income growth, and we are working with our national collections bodies to explore alternative ways of working. We will continue to work with partners to ensure that all available public, private and third sector investment is used to deliver the maximum benefit for communities and organisations across Scotland. I look forward to working with committee members and colleagues across the chamber to realise that ambition and, which is perhaps most important, I hope that you will support our plan to increase culture funding through the parliamentary process in due course.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Clare Adamson)
SNP
Good morning and welcome to the 22nd meeting in 2024 of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee. We have only one agenda item this m...
The Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture (Angus Robertson)
SNP
Good morning, all of you, and thank you for inviting me to discuss the Scottish Government’s funding for culture in 2025-26, as part of your pre-budget scrut...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much, cabinet secretary, and thank you for that detailed opening statement. Since Covid, the culture sector has experienced a particularly ha...
Angus Robertson
SNP
The most important thing that can boost people’s confidence is delivery of the commitments that have been made. The commitment that has been made is to an up...
The Convener
SNP
We know that regularly funded organisations have a special place in culture funding in Scotland. One of the other concerns that has been raised frequently i...
Angus Robertson
SNP
The process of change from the current funding model for regularly funded organisations to the new model of funding on a multiannual basis involves many more...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. We will now move to questions from committee members.
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Good morning, cabinet secretary; it is good to see you. Given the concerns that we have heard from the sector over the past few weeks, when we have been taki...
Angus Robertson
SNP
I would not expect to say this to you often in debate, Mr Stewart, but I agree with absolutely everything that you have said. Your characterisation of where ...
Alexander Stewart
Con
You have also talked about the review of Creative Scotland. It is very important that we have clarity as to where the organisation is going and what is going...
Angus Robertson
SNP
First, I tried to draw a picture of a changed, improved landscape for the culture and arts sector in Scotland, which, by its very nature, will and must have ...
Alexander Stewart
Con
I appreciate that. We all want to see the sector thrive and survive. As I say, it has been extremely resilient, having been supported by organisations, inclu...
Angus Robertson
SNP
Again, I could not agree more; that is absolutely right. We have been advised about the scale of financial support that is required for change. I think that ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
There is a great deal in the picture that you are painting that the committee and the sector would welcome—increased resource, long-term certainty and a revi...
Angus Robertson
SNP
Again, I could not agree more. As I observed in a previous answer, the scale of the funding step change that is necessary for the culture sector to thrive ha...
Patrick Harvie
Green
That is by 2028; I am asking about the coming year.
Angus Robertson
SNP
Indeed. The point that Mr Harvie makes—I welcome him to the committee, incidentally—is about how we can do that as quickly as possible, which is the key chal...
Patrick Harvie
Green
Thank you for that extensive answer. If there is time later, I may ask a follow-up question on that subject. Further to the last point that you made, I note...
Angus Robertson
SNP
Again, total agreement has broken out at this meeting. I totally agree with Mr Harvie’s observations. I agree first that the review is an opportunity. I genu...
Patrick Harvie
Green
Not really.
Angus Robertson
SNP
However, is that something that we should now look at? I am not drawing limits on how a review can consider the creative landscape. The second point—it cann...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning, cabinet secretary. You have been agreeing with the premise of many of the questions from committee members. Would you agree that the culture se...
Angus Robertson
SNP
I agree that the culture sector is emerging from crisis. By any objective criteria it is doing so, given the challenges for a number of organisations and ven...
Neil Bibby
Lab
We have heard significant evidence from the sector that it still faces a huge crisis. Museums Galleries Scotland told the committee: “We have reached a poin...
Angus Robertson
SNP
I know that Mr Bibby has already been listening very closely to the past 40-plus minutes of evidence, in which I have been outlining our commitment to increa...
Neil Bibby
Lab
We have discussed the need for confidence and certainty in the sector, but what we are seeing is chaos and a mess. I have been listening closely to what you ...
Angus Robertson
SNP
Let me be absolutely clear about the budgetary process, for anybody watching who is not aware of this. Scotland’s budget is dependent on budgetary decisions ...
Neil Bibby
Lab
Yes.
Angus Robertson
SNP
In circumstances of previous incoming Governments, the length of time that it took for a UK budget to be in place and for there to be clarity is as follows. ...
Neil Bibby
Lab
How many months ago was it when you gave those commitments for an extra £25 million?