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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee 23 April 2024

23 Apr 2024 · S6 · Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Item of business

Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

McLennan, Paul SNP East Lothian Watch on SPTV

I have a little bit more to say, so I will move on, but I will, I hope, pick up the points that you have mentioned. Works will be considered to be complete only when the cladding assurance register is updated accordingly, which will require that works have been completed to the satisfaction of the Scottish ministers. Work is under way to develop a robust compliance and assurance framework to support that through the cladding remediation programme. That touches on the point that Ms Duncan-Glancy referenced, but I am happy to pick up points about completion of the SBA process. I remind members that we always seek to undertake works with the consent of owners. If that is not possible, they have a right of appeal to the sheriff court, except in circumstances in which work is considered to be urgent because of there being an immediate risk to life, in which case such notice as the circumstances permit will be given. In the light of the measures that I have outlined, I do not believe that an independent reviewer is necessary, why is why I ask members to reject amendment 52 if it is moved. We must avoid unnecessary delays in progressing with assessment and remediation. On amendments 53 and 82, assigning responsibility for remediation work is not part of the SBA and is not an appropriate task for the experts who undertake the assessments. The purpose of the SBA is to comprehensively assess the risk to human life that is directly or indirectly created, or exacerbated, by a building’s external wall cladding system. Responsibility for remediation work will be attributed after that work is identified in the SBA, when contractors will be engaged to carry out the remediation work. Amendments 53 and 82 would distract from the purpose of the SBA rather than improve the bill, so I ask members to reject the amendments in the event that they are moved. I thank Ms Duncan-Glancy for lodging amendments 51 and 86, on a committee for single building assessments, which bring a key point to the attention of the committee. Home owners and residents must remain firmly at the heart of cladding remediation. We should, and we will, ensure that lived experience is considered, as we develop, implement and improve our approach to cladding remediation. However, it is important for residents who are affected by such issues that the cladding remediation programme can be progressed as quickly as possible. It is inevitable that placing that aspect of the process on a statutory footing would delay, rather than speed up, the programme. I therefore propose to engage directly with Ms Duncan-Glancy to consider how best to build lived experience into our operational programme. I wrote to her last night about engaging with her as we move towards stage 3; I hope that she has received that correspondence. She has my commitment that we will consider how best we can ensure that everything that we do is informed by the lived experience of owners and occupiers, including those with disabilities. On that basis, I ask that Pam Duncan-Glancy not move amendments 51 and 86 and that she agrees to meet me to consider how best we can embed lived experience in the cladding remediation programme. Amendment 83 would require that the SBA sets out whether each risk that is identified during the assessment process is tolerable. That is not how tolerable risk will be assessed in the SBA. After all the risks have been identified, the SBA will state which of those risks should be addressed and how, in order to bring the risk as a whole that is posed to human life down to a tolerable level. As such, there will be no way to assess whether each risk is tolerable; tolerable risk must be assessed in the round, taking into account the risks as a whole that have been identified in a building and how they might be mitigated. The way in which amendment 83 is expressed would not allow an SBA to be conducted in the way that is required. In any event, the standards in development are the best place to deal with questions about how tolerable risk is identified. I therefore ask Mark Griffin not to move amendment 83, and I ask members to reject it if it is moved. Amendment 42 is a technical amendment to bring the definition of “building height” into line with the definition that we expect to be proposed for the single building assessment standard, which, in turn, draws on the definition that is contained in the PAS 9980 standards that are used elsewhere in the United Kingdom. An updated definition of building height will therefore support consistency between SBA assessments in Scotland and PAS 9980, and it will provide greater accuracy and clarity for all interested parties. On amendment 85, our risk-based approach has consistently outlined the current scope of the programme as being buildings that are more than 11m in height. That is based on a risk assessment of capability to fight a fire, reflecting the reach of ground-mounted water jets and the use of specialist height appliances. The SBA is for buildings over 11m, and the bill is reflective of that scope. If ministers want to change the scope in the future, that would be subject to due consideration through appropriate regulations. We do not want to limit flexibility by stating the height in the bill. I reject amendment 85 and invite members to do the same.

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee 23 April 2024

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