Committee
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee 30 May 2023
30 May 2023 · S6 · Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Item of business
Building Safety
Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to speak on the important topic of building safety. My most recent appearance before the committee was just two weeks ago As always, it is good to be back. The Government’s absolute priority is the safety of residents and home owners. The Grenfell Tower tragedy provided absolute clarity on why building safety is so important. As the committee will be aware, immediately after the Grenfell Tower fire, we established a ministerial working group on building and fire safety. Since then, substantial progress has been made, with changes to fire safety standards and guidance, and further measures being taken, including legislation on smoke alarms, to address safety in buildings. The ministerial working group continues to meet and will address actions on building safety matters, working with key partner organisations such as the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. Safety is the reason why we have established a cladding remediation programme. I am determined to ensure that we identify, assess and remediate buildings with potentially unsafe cladding. Currently, 105 buildings are on the cladding remediation programme. Each of those buildings will go through a comprehensive technical assessment through a single building assessment. A single building assessment is a complex expert assessment. As we have already heard this morning, it is crucial that we take the time to get that assessment right, since it is the basis of all further work on the building. If experts identify an urgent issue during the assessment, we will take immediate action to safeguard residents. However, I appreciate that, for many home owners, this process has taken too long. Last year, we changed our approach to the programme, moving from a grant model to a direct procurement model, which has led to a real increase in the pace of delivery. Finally, I will update the committee on the Scottish safer buildings accord. The process has taken longer than we had hoped and has been complicated by the nature of the Scottish tenure system. However, I am pleased that we have made positive progress on the accord, as the committee heard earlier from Fionna Kell. I can confirm that a number of developers have sent or are in the process of sending in developer commitment letters on the accord. That is an important step. We will now move to discussing the long-term legally binding agreement. I can also confirm that we are looking urgently at legislative options to ensure that we remove barriers to support the delivery of the programme, to keep residents safe and to hold developers to account. We continue to work hard to remediate cladding issues for home owners and residents to ensure that we deliver a commitment to safeguard residents and home owners. Thank you again for inviting me along. I look forward to answering your questions.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Green
We now turn to item 2, which is to take evidence on building safety, focusing in particular on progress over the past year on the single building assessment ...
Chris Ashurst (High Rise Scotland Action Group)
Thank you for that really good question. The one-word answer is yes. The extended answer is that I can think of several buildings for which, for example, an ...
The Convener
Green
That is very helpful. It is concerning to hear that there is a lot of worry and wondering about the system and processes. You talked about it being possible...
Chris Ashurst
The game changed slightly with the issuing of the new guidance on the Friday before Christmas week. The guidance was not publicised hugely, but there were ch...
The Convener
Green
So, a bit more nuance is needed.
Chris Ashurst
That is absolutely right.
The Convener
Green
Great. Thanks very much.
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
SNP
Chris, if you do not mind, I will continue on that theme with you. It sounds very simplistic to have had the assessment originally as just low risk or high r...
Chris Ashurst
First, as I have already confessed, I was an insolvency practitioner; I am not a builder or surveyor. Some of the buildings have highly flammable materials ...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Thank you for that. It helps us to understand where the grey area might lie: in the middle between low risk and high risk. I think that I know what you will ...
Chris Ashurst
I know one of the guys?he has given evidence here?who drafted the EWS1 form. Unfortunately, I did not know him when he drafted it. Of course, it was drafted ...
Willie Coffey
SNP
That leads me to the next question, which is about the difficulties of getting flat owners to agree to remedial action in Scotland. Can you tell us a little ...
Chris Ashurst
There are at least two schools of thought on that. I have discussed the matter with some of the guys on the team, who you will, I think, see later. An argume...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Are there examples of remediation having been done with the agreement of a quorum or some other kind of agreement?
Chris Ashurst
I am aware of only one building in Scotland where remediation is in any sense advanced. It is a relatively small development in a city. I believe that the ow...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Was there 100 per cent agreement.
Chris Ashurst
I do not know; I was not there. I think that there have been some difficulties since. In other places, getting agreement has been very difficult indeed becau...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Is that because remediation would cost a lot of money?
Chris Ashurst
Of course, there is the rub: will it or will it not? People are still unsure. I am sure that Fionna Kell will talk a little bit about that later, and so will...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Okay.
Chris Ashurst
The owners should not have to foot the bill. I know that the Scottish Government is committed to making others pay.
Willie Coffey
SNP
Okay. I know that other colleagues will come in on that, so thank you very much, for the moment.
The Convener
Green
Thanks very much, Willie. I was just going to say that. Marie McNair has questions for Chris. We will then come to Fionna, so if there is anything that you ...
Marie McNair (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you, and good morning. Do owners in affected buildings still find it difficult or expensive to obtain insurance? Have actions by the insurance industry...
Chris Ashurst
Yes. There are buildings that have no insurance because they cannot get it. A normal risk figure would be £100 million. I am aware of a building where they h...
Marie McNair
SNP
My goodness.
Chris Ashurst
The factors said, “As factors, we just do not think that we could recommend that.” At the end of the day, it is the owner’s choice, but that is not doable. T...
Fionna Kell (Homes for Scotland)
The client stakeholder group.
Chris Ashurst
That is the one: the stakeholder group. An Association of British Insurers scheme is in the process of being launched. I can give you the website details if ...
Marie McNair
SNP
Yes, it does. Thank you for that, Chris. The Scottish Government’s single building assessment programme was announced in March 2021. How well has its delive...