Committee
Social Justice and Social Security Committee 17 November 2022
17 Nov 2022 · S6 · Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Item of business
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Foysol Choudhury asked my first question, and the minister touched on the second question that I was going to ask, about procurement, so I thank him for that. I have one small question about third sector representation on care boards, minister. What are your views on that? That is the only question that I have on that area.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
In our main item of business today, we will take evidence from two panels on the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill. This is our second evidence session o...
Paul McLennan (East Lothian) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning. The policy memorandum to the bill says: “Phasing of the transfer of functions from 2025-26 will need to be based on delivery readiness assessm...
Andrew Ewen (Leonard Cheshire)
The key thing is that, because of the sequencing of the bill—because it is an enabling piece of legislation—it runs a risk in that the co-design process will...
Paul McLennan
SNP
Rachel, will you give your point of view? I will then bring in anyone else who wants to comment.
Rachel Cackett (Coalition of Care and Support Providers in Scotland)
Thank you for the opportunity to come and speak to you today. CCPS is a member organisation that comprises 91 exclusively third sector providers, some of whi...
Paul McLennan
SNP
You mentioned the issue of contracts. The bill would allow contracts to be reserved to voluntary and third sector organisations. What are your views on that ...
Rachel Cackett
The bill contains provisions on ethical commissioning and provisions on reserved contracts, which are interlinked. The detail on ethical commissioning is ver...
Paul McLennan
SNP
Thank you. I will bring in Frank McKillop. Frank, I put to you the same question about ensuring that reform does not destabilise your services, but perhaps y...
Frank McKillop (ENABLE Scotland)
On the first point, there is no doubt that reform is required, which is why we have welcomed the introduction of the bill. I echo the points that Rachel Cack...
Paul McLennan
SNP
I am conscious of the time, but, if I may, I will put the same questions to Chris Gehrke. As you will know, Chris, our policy will have to work across Scotla...
Chris Gehrke (L’Arche Highland)
This message has already been made clear, but the sector is not stable at present. The change and reform that we are about to embark on are required. Only t...
Emma Roddick (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
L’Arche has recommended that personal assistants be regulated. Why is that needed and what impact could it have?
Chris Gehrke
The notion came from the practical experience of working with families with family members or children who have a learning disability. They get to a stage in...
Emma Roddick
SNP
Thank you. That was helpful. I am interested in your reference to the SSSC. There has been some concern that having PAs register in that way would push them...
Chris Gehrke
This might seem different from a different perspective, but it strikes me that, in this particular workforce, those at the front line move from personal assi...
Emma Roddick
SNP
As you come from the Highlands, is there anything that you think that the national care service would need to consider in working with third sector providers...
Chris Gehrke
It seems to most of my peers who work in the Highlands that rurality—the reality of living in the Highlands, and, I am sure, other rural parts of Scotland, s...
Emma Roddick
SNP
I want to press further on that, if I may, convener. I appreciate everything that you have just said, Chris. Off the top of your head, is there anything that...
Chris Gehrke
Speaking broadly, I would feel more reassured if the co-design process were to happen at the local, grass-roots level, as it should; if there were funding fo...
The Deputy Convener
SNP
We will now take questions from Pam Duncan-Glancy, to be followed by Jeremy Balfour.
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning, panel. Thank you for the submissions that you gave us in advance and for answering our questions so far. We have already touched on this, but ...
Rachel Cackett
Absolutely—and thank you for the question, because this really is a pressing concern for us. As I have mentioned, we recently published a piece of work call...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
It might be self-evident, but are the retention and recruitment issues largely to do with pay and conditions, or are there other factors? 08:30
Rachel Cackett
It is a huge part of what we are hearing. There is a supply issue, but the fact is that, when the real living wage of £10.90 was announced, many other employ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Sheena Arthur, could you respond to the same question and tell us about the situation in Glasgow for your members?
Sheena Arthur (Glasgow Council for the Voluntary Sector)
Thank you for the opportunity. I would just echo what has already been said. We are seeing a sector in crisis, and we should take immediate action that valu...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Thank you for that, Sheena. It echoes some of what Rachel Cackett said and paints a pretty grim picture of what is going on. I want to ask Frank McKillop an...
Frank McKillop
We have to remember that, when we talk about a crisis in capacity and recruitment and retention pressures, we are actually talking about individual people no...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Do you think that the bill needs to be strengthened in that sense?
Frank McKillop
We certainly feel that one thing is strangely absent, although it might be an oversight. As has been pointed out, the bill makes no specific reference to sel...