Committee
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee 23 April 2024
23 Apr 2024 · S6 · Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Item of business
Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
As drafted, part 1 of the bill outlines the requirement for the Scottish ministers to maintain a cladding assurance register. An entry will be created in the register only after a single building assessment has been completed and any remediation work identified in that SBA has been completed to the satisfaction of ministers. That was to ensure that entries are made only once any such remediation work identified in the SBA has been completed. However, I acknowledge that, during the stage 1 evidence sessions that the committee conducted, numerous stakeholders highlighted the multifaceted challenges associated with properties affected by potentially unsafe cladding, with issues pertaining to remortgaging, buying, selling and insuring such properties being of particular concern. The committee’s stage 1 report highlighted that there were concerns that the existing points of entry to the cladding assurance register might not adequately address those challenges, and that there was a growing consensus among stakeholders that supported the point of entry on to the register always being the completion of a single building assessment, including when a need for remediation work is identified. In my response to the committee’s stage 1 report on the bill, I made a commitment to review the Government’s position on point of entry. After careful consideration, I agree that changing the entry point for buildings on to the cladding assurance register in cases in which the SBA identifies a need for remediation work would be a worthwhile change. That approach seeks to enhance transparency and might assist decision making in property transactions, while ensuring that any change is aligned with the overarching objective of ensuring the safety and wellbeing of occupants residing in buildings with cladding. It responds positively and directly to a recommendation that the committee made in its stage 1 report. The change is delivered by amendments 10 and 11, which will ensure that an entry on to the register is always created immediately after the SBA has been completed. That change creates a need to adjust section 1 to make it clear how the completion of works will be recorded. Government amendment 12 does that by confirming that an entry is to be updated “as soon as reasonably practicable after the Scottish Ministers are satisfied that” the work is complete. However, amendment 12 has an additional aspect, to which I will now turn. Amendment 12, along with the remaining Government amendments in the group, also adds to the bill the concept of additional work assessments. Our approach to cladding remediation is centred on the process of a single building assessment and, specifically, on the works that are required to eliminate or mitigate risk to human life related to the external wall system. Cladding assessment and remediation can be a complex engineering project. We must allow for a scenario in which additional relevant risk and associated works to address that risk are identified after the single building assessment has been completed, without going back to square 1. For example, that could occur when an issue becomes apparent after a cladding panel has been removed from a building during the course of planned remediation and it exposes a problem that was not evident in the original SBA. We do not want to create any unnecessary barriers of process that would delay the completion of necessary work. Through the amendments, we also seek to ensure that all required works are documented, completed and captured in the cladding assurance register, thereby ensuring that the golden thread of information from assessment to completed remediation is maintained. We must also ensure that the rights of owners are protected. We have therefore reflected existing procedural safeguards, including 21 days’ notification of and appeal against newly discovered work being conducted, unless the work is urgent. I ask members to support all the Government amendments in the group. Mark Griffin’s amendments seek to amend the language of the bill, specifically in relation to a “risk to human life”. In doing so, they touch on the central purpose of the bill and of the cladding remediation programme. As such, his amendments propose changes in a number of places throughout the bill, but we are required to discuss them here due to amendments 44 and 45 being pre-empted by my amendment 10, which I have already discussed. 10:30 My assumption is that Mark Griffin’s amendments, taken together, intend to replace the current references to risks that are directly or indirectly “created or exacerbated by a building’s external wall cladding system” with broader references to “any risks” that are created or exacerbated by that system. I do not support such an approach. The current language makes it clear that the risks to be addressed may be either directly caused by the cladding system itself or indirectly influenced by it. Not being clear on that point could risk narrowing the focus of the single building assessment to risks that are directly attributed to the cladding system alone, with the result that secondary or indirect risks that impact on the risk to life could potentially be overlooked. Ultimately, such a narrowing of the assessment could have the effect of leaving remediated buildings at a higher risk level post remediation than the bill currently allows for. I urge Mark Griffin not to move the amendments, as they might increase the risk to owners and occupiers in affected areas. I want to touch on amendment 49, in the name of Miles Briggs, which seeks to remove section 1(3)(b) from the bill. That provision relates to the cladding assurance register and, specifically, the ability of the Scottish ministers to include in the register any information that they consider appropriate, in addition to that required to be included by section 1(3)(a) and—if my amendment 12 is agreed to—new paragraphs (aa) and (ab). The Government’s intention with the existing provision is to retain flexibility in terms of what can be added to the cladding assurance register, to allow us to add further information to the register, if required, as it is operationalised. I have already committed to working with stakeholders including the Association of British Insurers and UK Finance to ensure that the register can be of maximum value to them as they consider their ability to lend on and insure properties with potentially unsafe cladding. It is imperative that we have the ability to capture the data that will allow the register to operate as effectively as possible. Although I appreciate that certainty as to what can be added to the register is an attractive prospect, on balance, the Government’s position is to retain such flexibility. I urge Miles Briggs not to move amendment 49. In conclusion, I ask members not to move their amendments in this group. I move amendment 10.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Green
We now begin our stage 2 proceedings on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill. We are joined for this item by the Minister for Housing and his o...
The Convener
Green
The first group is on the cladding assurance register, additional work assessments and levels of risk. Amendment 10, in the name of the minister, is grouped ...
The Minister for Housing (Paul McLennan)
SNP
As drafted, part 1 of the bill outlines the requirement for the Scottish ministers to maintain a cladding assurance register. An entry will be created in the...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I have a number of amendments in the group, which, at this point, are all probing amendments. I appreciate the engagement that the minister has had with me a...
Miles Briggs
Con
Amendment 49 is my only amendment in the group; it, too, is a probing amendment. The minister has clarified—this is important for developers—what works will ...
Paul McLennan
SNP
Shall I respond to that, convener?
The Convener
Green
I will just check whether anyone else wants to come in first. As no one does, I invite the minister to respond.
Paul McLennan
SNP
We have spoken to the ABI and UK Finance about that. I come back to Mark Griffin’s point. We have had discussions all the way through the process, and we wil...
Miles Briggs
Con
Given that we are at stage 2, it is important that we have clarification on that, especially in relation to orphan buildings. Although they are not being loo...
Paul McLennan
SNP
I will write to you.
The Convener
Green
Do you have anything else to say to wind up, minister?
Paul McLennan
SNP
I have nothing further to add.
The Convener
Green
I remind members that, if amendment 10 is agreed to, I will not be able to call amendments 44 or 45, due to pre-emption. Amendment 10 agreed to. Amendment ...
The Convener
Green
The next group is entitled “Single-building assessments—content, definition, and effect”. Amendment 46, in the name of Mark Griffin, is grouped with amendmen...
Mark Griffin
Lab
My amendments in the group are probing amendments to get more detail, as per what we heard at stage 1 about what a single building assessment would look like...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will you take an intervention on that point?
Mark Griffin
Lab
I will.
Graham Simpson
Con
Amendment 53 says: “Each single-building assessment report must state who is responsible for carrying out any remediation work”. What level of detail would...
Mark Griffin
Lab
Thank you for that intervention. It would not be the company or tradesperson who would be responsible for carrying out the principal work, but the organisati...
The Convener
Green
I invite Pam Duncan-Glancy to speak to amendment 51 and other amendments in the group.
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
My amendments in this and other groups are intended to address issues that I have heard about from residents who live in the Glasgow region, and which are, n...
The Convener
Green
I note for clarity that amendment 55 is not in this group. I heard some rustling of papers. I invite the minister to speak to amendment 42 and other amendme...
Paul McLennan
SNP
I will touch on the point about amendment 55 when we move to that group, Ms Duncan-Glancy. I note that reference. I will begin with amendment 46. The claddi...
Graham Simpson
Con
Minister, Mr Griffin’s amendment 46 simply asks for owners and occupiers to be given the fullest possible information about what the property is actually bui...
Paul McLennan
SNP
In my opinion, the process in the bill would give them that information. I would be happy to pick up on that and to chat with Mr Griffin about the SBA proces...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Before I make my point, I clarify that the arguments that I made earlier related to amendments 51 and 52. I mixed up amendment 52 and amendment 55 but—I hope...
Paul McLennan
SNP
I have a little bit more to say, so I will move on, but I will, I hope, pick up the points that you have mentioned. Works will be considered to be complete ...
The Convener
Green
Before I invite other members to speak, I ask members to request interventions through the chair. As no other member wants to speak to the amendments, I call...
Mark Griffin
Lab
I appreciate the minister providing the Government’s response to the amendments in the group that I lodged. As I have said, they are probing amendments, and ...
The Convener
Green
We move to the next group of amendments, which is on communication and consultation. Amendment 5, in the name of Graham Simpson, is grouped with amendments 5...