Chamber
Plenary, 02 Dec 2009
02 Dec 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Violence Against Women
It has been a mark of this Parliament that, since its establishment, it has sought to build an understanding of the causes and consequences of male violence against women. I believe that a consensus has been created across the chamber about the significance of the issue for the health and wellbeing of far too many women and children in our communities.
I recognise the significance of that consensus, but I believe that we owe it to our shared commitment to tackle violence against women not to settle for a cosy coming together. Rather, we should see the debate as an opportunity not only to acknowledge that but to reflect on a number of critical issues that need to be addressed.
On Monday, we marked St Andrew's day. For some, it was a day to acknowledge our Scottishness, for a bit of flag waving and perhaps for some sentimentality. I was privileged to hear Alastair McIntosh—a Quaker, author and fellow of the centre for human ecology—on Radio 4, providing a fascinating insight into and a challenging view of our patron saint. I will quote, or rather abridge, his words. He said: "Today is the day of Andrew, the patron saint of Scotland, but for some people—men and children, but I am thinking especially of women—it won't be a happy day to wake up to. It will be a day of nursing last night's wounds. In many ways, domestic violence is the most confusing type of assault, because it comes from those who are supposed to love you. We learn of St Andrew in the Acts of Andrew. These tell how he became the spiritual teacher of Maximilla, wife of the Roman proconsul, Aegeates. She confided how, every night, her husband came home drunk and forced himself on her. Andrew—whose name means ‘manliness'—encouraged her to treat this with zero tolerance. Aegeates had him flogged, specially tied to an X-shaped cross to prolong the agony, and crucified at Patras. Here, domestic violence links to the ugliness of empire and strikes out far beyond the home. It profoundly distorts a person's sense of what is normal and acceptable. Andrew stood by Maximilla as she broke that spell of violence. May his gentle manliness be our inspiration. Let us today remember Andrew—patron saint of a woman's right to say no."
That wonderful contribution reflects a powerful message about the long existence of male violence, but it also gives us hope that male violence is not inevitable. Perhaps, in Andrew, we see a more optimistic view of what manliness might be. In our various debates about what a future Scotland might look like, we are determined to ensure that, whatever the constitutional arrangements, we must seek to create in our communities and our country a place where women and children are safe, where rape and abuse of women through trafficking and prostitution are tackled and women are protected, where perpetrators are challenged not tolerated and where our young people are taught to grow up together in safe and respectful relationships.
I will highlight a number of areas of concern that I would like the minister to address, given our shared commitment to protection, provision and prevention.
Our amendment notes that we are still awaiting a report on the implementation of single outcome agreements, despite a commitment that that would be available in September. If we cannot analyse what is happening with single outcome agreements in relation to violence against women, how can their effectiveness be assessed, how can confidence be given to those who were fearful of the consequences of the end of ring fencing for consistency of provision, and how can there be certainty that any problems with the agreements will be addressed?
The minister will be aware that I have fought hard to get John Swinney to agree not to accept single outcome agreements without evidence of an equality impact assessment having been carried out. I believe that that approach would respond to the concerns that were highlighted by the Equality and Human Rights Commission in its briefing.
The minister will also be aware of the analysis of single outcome agreements that was done by Scottish Women's Aid. That must ring alarm bells about the safety of women in our communities.
Women's Aid tells us that its analysis of single outcome agreements raises questions about whether the protection of women and children from violence is one of the highest priorities across Scotland. It points out that only 11 single outcome agreements state that addressing violence against women locally is a priority; that only 10 single outcome agreements include a specific reference to children affected by domestic abuse; and that only five single outcome agreements make reference to violence against women in relation to gender equality.
I am sure that the minister will agree that that is a troubling trend for those who are committed to consistency of understanding and provision across Scotland.
Linked to that are the concerns that have been highlighted to me that the work on violence against women is being diluted and increasingly subsumed into a more generalised community safety role. I am all for putting energy into addressing disorder and antisocial behaviour, but we all know that a fundamental of our understanding of violence against women and domestic abuse is that the crime needs to be named so that it can be tackled. It is essential to maintain a sharp focus on the distinctive nature of male violence and its consequences.
With regard to the protection of women and children, we must welcome the continued focus on multi-agency working, in which education, police, housing, social work and health all play a role in supporting women and minimising the impact on children. However, it is the justice system that is central in protecting women. We should never forget the horrific statistics on the murder of women, which show that women are most at risk from a partner or ex-partner and most vulnerable at the point of their decision to leave.
I commend Rhoda Grant's proposed member's bill, which will give women increased support and access to legal support; I believe that she will say more about that today. I welcome the Tories' amendment, which acknowledges the role of domestic abuse courts and repeats Labour's call for Kenny MacAskill to ensure that such courts are rolled out beyond Glasgow. It will be essential that the courts, in whatever form they are developed, allow for partnership working and effective risk assessment. That approach is currently provided in Glasgow through the advice, support, safety and information services together—ASSIST—project.
We need to explore the availability of perpetrator programmes, and, connected to that, programmes for the families of perpetrators. Women's organisations resisted the push for pre-court diversion for men who had committed domestic abuse offences in the past, as women believed that the crime should be recognised as precisely that: a crime.
Today, we need to take heed of what women's organisations are saying about the plans to end sentences of six months or fewer. We need to deter men by marking domestic abuse as a significant offence. There is no doubt that for some families, a sentence—even if it is for less than six months—can afford not only respite but, more critically, enough space for a woman to make a life-changing decision, and to get out and be supported to do so.
I raised that issue with the First Minister at First Minister's questions last week, and he replied that serious offences should attract serious sentences. I seek clarification on that. Does that mean that domestic abuse offences would be exempt from the presumption against sentences of six months or fewer, or that all domestic abuse offences would attract sentences of more than six months? How would such approaches be enforced?
I recognise the significance of that consensus, but I believe that we owe it to our shared commitment to tackle violence against women not to settle for a cosy coming together. Rather, we should see the debate as an opportunity not only to acknowledge that but to reflect on a number of critical issues that need to be addressed.
On Monday, we marked St Andrew's day. For some, it was a day to acknowledge our Scottishness, for a bit of flag waving and perhaps for some sentimentality. I was privileged to hear Alastair McIntosh—a Quaker, author and fellow of the centre for human ecology—on Radio 4, providing a fascinating insight into and a challenging view of our patron saint. I will quote, or rather abridge, his words. He said: "Today is the day of Andrew, the patron saint of Scotland, but for some people—men and children, but I am thinking especially of women—it won't be a happy day to wake up to. It will be a day of nursing last night's wounds. In many ways, domestic violence is the most confusing type of assault, because it comes from those who are supposed to love you. We learn of St Andrew in the Acts of Andrew. These tell how he became the spiritual teacher of Maximilla, wife of the Roman proconsul, Aegeates. She confided how, every night, her husband came home drunk and forced himself on her. Andrew—whose name means ‘manliness'—encouraged her to treat this with zero tolerance. Aegeates had him flogged, specially tied to an X-shaped cross to prolong the agony, and crucified at Patras. Here, domestic violence links to the ugliness of empire and strikes out far beyond the home. It profoundly distorts a person's sense of what is normal and acceptable. Andrew stood by Maximilla as she broke that spell of violence. May his gentle manliness be our inspiration. Let us today remember Andrew—patron saint of a woman's right to say no."
That wonderful contribution reflects a powerful message about the long existence of male violence, but it also gives us hope that male violence is not inevitable. Perhaps, in Andrew, we see a more optimistic view of what manliness might be. In our various debates about what a future Scotland might look like, we are determined to ensure that, whatever the constitutional arrangements, we must seek to create in our communities and our country a place where women and children are safe, where rape and abuse of women through trafficking and prostitution are tackled and women are protected, where perpetrators are challenged not tolerated and where our young people are taught to grow up together in safe and respectful relationships.
I will highlight a number of areas of concern that I would like the minister to address, given our shared commitment to protection, provision and prevention.
Our amendment notes that we are still awaiting a report on the implementation of single outcome agreements, despite a commitment that that would be available in September. If we cannot analyse what is happening with single outcome agreements in relation to violence against women, how can their effectiveness be assessed, how can confidence be given to those who were fearful of the consequences of the end of ring fencing for consistency of provision, and how can there be certainty that any problems with the agreements will be addressed?
The minister will be aware that I have fought hard to get John Swinney to agree not to accept single outcome agreements without evidence of an equality impact assessment having been carried out. I believe that that approach would respond to the concerns that were highlighted by the Equality and Human Rights Commission in its briefing.
The minister will also be aware of the analysis of single outcome agreements that was done by Scottish Women's Aid. That must ring alarm bells about the safety of women in our communities.
Women's Aid tells us that its analysis of single outcome agreements raises questions about whether the protection of women and children from violence is one of the highest priorities across Scotland. It points out that only 11 single outcome agreements state that addressing violence against women locally is a priority; that only 10 single outcome agreements include a specific reference to children affected by domestic abuse; and that only five single outcome agreements make reference to violence against women in relation to gender equality.
I am sure that the minister will agree that that is a troubling trend for those who are committed to consistency of understanding and provision across Scotland.
Linked to that are the concerns that have been highlighted to me that the work on violence against women is being diluted and increasingly subsumed into a more generalised community safety role. I am all for putting energy into addressing disorder and antisocial behaviour, but we all know that a fundamental of our understanding of violence against women and domestic abuse is that the crime needs to be named so that it can be tackled. It is essential to maintain a sharp focus on the distinctive nature of male violence and its consequences.
With regard to the protection of women and children, we must welcome the continued focus on multi-agency working, in which education, police, housing, social work and health all play a role in supporting women and minimising the impact on children. However, it is the justice system that is central in protecting women. We should never forget the horrific statistics on the murder of women, which show that women are most at risk from a partner or ex-partner and most vulnerable at the point of their decision to leave.
I commend Rhoda Grant's proposed member's bill, which will give women increased support and access to legal support; I believe that she will say more about that today. I welcome the Tories' amendment, which acknowledges the role of domestic abuse courts and repeats Labour's call for Kenny MacAskill to ensure that such courts are rolled out beyond Glasgow. It will be essential that the courts, in whatever form they are developed, allow for partnership working and effective risk assessment. That approach is currently provided in Glasgow through the advice, support, safety and information services together—ASSIST—project.
We need to explore the availability of perpetrator programmes, and, connected to that, programmes for the families of perpetrators. Women's organisations resisted the push for pre-court diversion for men who had committed domestic abuse offences in the past, as women believed that the crime should be recognised as precisely that: a crime.
Today, we need to take heed of what women's organisations are saying about the plans to end sentences of six months or fewer. We need to deter men by marking domestic abuse as a significant offence. There is no doubt that for some families, a sentence—even if it is for less than six months—can afford not only respite but, more critically, enough space for a woman to make a life-changing decision, and to get out and be supported to do so.
I raised that issue with the First Minister at First Minister's questions last week, and he replied that serious offences should attract serious sentences. I seek clarification on that. Does that mean that domestic abuse offences would be exempt from the presumption against sentences of six months or fewer, or that all domestic abuse offences would attract sentences of more than six months? How would such approaches be enforced?
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
Our next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-5307, in the name of Alex Neil, on safer lives: changed lives—working together to end violence against wo...
The Minister for Housing and Communities (Alex Neil):
SNP
I have much pleasure in introducing—for the first time as minister—this afternoon's annual debate on an extremely worthy subject. This year, the debate is be...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
Does the minister acknowledge that the greatest increase in incidents of domestic abuse over the past nine years has been in cases of women committing violen...
Alex Neil:
SNP
Yes, in percentage terms, that is right. Overall, the statistics show an 8 per cent increase in incidents over the previous year. Of course, it is not just w...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
It is absolutely right to get on the record our support for having this debate—I fully support having it—but will the minister enlighten members about the Go...
Alex Neil:
SNP
As a result of an approach that an informal cross-party group of members made to me about domestic violence against men, I have initiated work in my departme...
Marlyn Glen (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the answers that the minister has given and the fact that he has gone back to the subject of today's debate, which is violence against women. Will ...
Alex Neil:
SNP
I am happy to reiterate the importance of that. Violence against women is by far the most predominant problem, and it must be treated separately. It is in so...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Will the minister take careful cognisance of the fact that there can be difficulties with refuge accommodation in rural areas such as the Scottish Borders? I...
Alex Neil:
SNP
I totally agree with Christine Grahame. Indeed, I heard of a case in which a phone call was made to a rape crisis centre by someone who lived in a rural area...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab):
Lab
I come to the issue from a slightly different perspective from that of Christine Grahame, as I represent an area in one of our bigger cities. The minister wi...
Alex Neil:
SNP
Partly as a result of representations from Margaret Curran and other stakeholders, during this year both Kenny MacAskill, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, ...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab):
Lab
It has been a mark of this Parliament that, since its establishment, it has sought to build an understanding of the causes and consequences of male violence ...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Surely, in certain cases, the term "domestic abuse" is the wrong one to use. The offence is purely and simply a criminal assault, and should be dealt with in...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
In the 10 years that we have been debating the issue, we have argued precisely the opposite. We have argued that we need to understand domestic abuse and vio...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
As the minister commented, at the weekend officials at league and cup football matches in Scotland wore white ribbons in support of a campaign against domest...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
Does the member agree that statistics and the evidence from testimonies show that some of those young men feel guilt at not being able to protect their mothe...
Bill Aitken:
Con
As I have said on many occasions in this chamber, there is absolutely no excuse for any kind of violence, whatever the background. Johann Lamont is correct t...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):
LD
On behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I am very glad to support the motion and the sentiments that it expresses, and I certainly welcome the inclusive attitude...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I do not want to dance on the head of a pin, and I hope that the member can answer my question. I am hearing the terms "domestic violence" and "domestic abus...
Robert Brown:
LD
I am not sure that there is much substance to Christine Grahame's point. It is valid as far it goes, in that violence is the particularly sharp end of domest...
Shirley-Anne Somerville (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
The statistics on domestic violence have already been set out in some detail by colleagues, and there is no need for me to repeat them. Up to a point, they a...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
Given the concerns about single outcome agreements that Scottish Women's Aid identified, does the member agree that it would be helpful if the minister were ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville:
SNP
There is not necessarily one simple solution. The lessons that I said need to be learned apply to every aspect of single outcome agreements, especially in re...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this important debate. Domestic abuse has been taken seriously by this Parliament, but we still have much to do...
Robert Brown:
LD
How would the member's proposal fit in with the existing system of Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981 interdicts and orders?
Rhoda Grant:
Lab
My proposal builds on what is in the 1981 act and the Protection from Abuse (Scotland) Act 2001. It would give more teeth to those injunctions and ensure tha...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Rhoda Grant:
Lab
I want to make progress before I take another intervention.Thirdly, I am consulting on non-harassment orders, which are currently available and which provide...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
In due course, I will come to the intervention that I was going to make, which was about interdicts and moving from civil to criminal procedures.As has alrea...