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Chamber

Plenary, 12 Nov 2009

12 Nov 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Community Fire Safety
This is an important debate. Day and daily, people throughout Scotland are faced with the devastating reality of fire. George Foulkes brought home to us the risk at which our firefighters place themselves to provide us with our safety. The death of the young firefighter in Edinburgh has impacted not only on that city but throughout Scotland, and I associate myself with George Foulkes's comments about recognising that young man's sacrifice at a UK level.

As other members have said, the increase in fire deaths in the wider population in 2007-08 is startling. We also need to recognise that, above and beyond that, many people are injured physically and mentally and sometimes bear the scars for a lifetime from the fire that they have been through.

We need to focus resources better to ensure that we prevent as many fires as possible. It is clear from what other members have said that there are major socioeconomic factors that impact on fire death and injury.

I appreciate the points that Linda Fabiani made about alcohol. We cannot get away from the fact that, when people have had a drink and they come home, they sometimes want something to eat. Perhaps they foolishly put on the chip pan or frying pan and then go through to the living room and fall asleep. The rest is left to unfold in tragic circumstances. We need to understand better how alcohol impacts on fire deaths and injuries in Scotland.

Many others have mentioned partnership working, which is key. One group that is important in that regard is the fire boards, because they are made up of local elected members who know their own communities. They are linked to local authorities and are often involved in the voluntary sector in their local area. They are therefore ideally placed to be at the heart of ensuring that that co-ordination and information sharing takes place. That will be important if we are genuinely to tackle the socioeconomic factors that influence fire deaths and injuries.

In the development of partnerships, the other important group is the fire service staff. If we are serious about walking the walk and talking the talk, rather than just talking the talk, we must use the knowledge of our fire service staff to best effect. We must learn from the experience of the men and women who make up our fire service. We must move forward in collaboration with them to build the best and most effective programmes to prevent further deaths and injuries.

I commend the work that is done in schools. We should not underestimate it: one of my boys took part in a session at school recently and when he came home he was keen to ensure that we all knew what he had learned and what we needed to do. He wanted us all to learn about making a safe route out of the house. For some of our hard-to-reach groups, that peer education is an important part of the work, given the way in which children badger their parents and make them listen.

I also commend the work that is already being done. I will speak briefly about one area that I represent. The volunteer firefighters in Leadhills have undertaken an impressive programme of work in the village, going to each and every household and providing the families with the advice and information that they need to avoid fires and information on planning a route out of their home should a fire occur. In villages such as Leadhills, which is quite isolated from the wider population, response times will always be longer than those in more urban areas, so fire avoidance and safe routes out are vital.

In my constituency, there is no slack. There are no spare vehicles, and I would be concerned if the partnership programme was seen as a cost-cutting exercise or a move of resources away from the fire service that affected its ability to respond to fires and other emergencies when they occur. With the best will in the world, there will be fires, and the fire service must be able to respond quickly and effectively to emergency situations. I would like it to be able to respond more quickly than it does in some of our rural communities, so I want to see more resources rather than fewer for some of the areas that I represent.

On a slightly different issue, as the M74 runs through the centre of my constituency, I am acutely aware of the need for specialised kit and training to deal with incidents that might happen there.

I welcome the recommendations on domestic sprinkler systems and the points that Nigel Don made about hard-wiring. We have all been in the situation when the battery runs out and the smoke detector goes "beep, beep, beep". We take the battery out, maybe we do not have another one, and so we forget to put a battery back in. We need to avoid that situation as much as possible.

There is merit in publicity programmes, which are important, but hard-to-reach groups will not always be reached by such programmes. It is often those with the most chaotic lifestyles who are the most vulnerable to the risk of fire. I say to Nigel Don that I am not convinced that they do not care. It is just that they have so many other things going on in their lives, and so many other challenges to face, that their smoke alarm does not always factor in that lifestyle. We need to be more imaginative about how we reach those groups. As I have said, children will be crucial in that work, and we should also try to get into the networks of other local authority agencies and health boards.

With more and more people choosing to stay in their own homes as they get older and have to live with age-related illnesses, the issue of mobility is going to come into sharper focus. Stewart Maxwell is right to highlight the practical measure of changing the batteries of elderly relatives' smoke alarms but, of course, not every old person has family who will do that for them. Perhaps another area of partnership working might be to ask home care staff to check the batteries of smoke alarms annually and ensure that the equipment is working effectively.

Firefighters are indeed brave people. I have previously highlighted in this chamber the sickening and unnecessary attacks that happen in many of our communities and for no reason whatever to these people, who go out every day to save lives. I hope that we in the Parliament can continue to collaborate on ensuring that such attacks are seen as completely unacceptable and are minimised and that we can support our fire service workers, who, after all, will be there to save us on the very day that we need to be saved.

I commend the motion to the chamber.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan): SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-5172, in the name of Fergus Ewing, on the future of community fire safety in Scotland.
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing): SNP
The Scottish Government requested this afternoon's debate in order to give Parliament an opportunity to discuss how we can further reduce fires by working in...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con): Con
In September, I spoke in the parliamentary debate on the fire and rescue framework. In that debate I paid tribute—as did members from all political parties—t...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
It might be helpful to John Lamont and to any members who are concerned about the B and B regulations to hear that we will issue in the next few weeks a cons...
John Lamont: Con
Indeed, I welcome that news from the minister and I am sure that many people in the sector in my constituency and throughout Scotland will also welcome it.My...
James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate. I thank Brian Sweeney and his team for the great amount of work that they clearly put into producing su...
Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
On the point about European regulation on fire-safe or RIP cigarettes, the member mentioned that Finland will introduce regulations—it will do so next April....
James Kelly: Lab
As was indicated to David Taylor, the MP for North West Leicestershire, in reply to a question, the UK Government is sympathetic on this issue and is moving ...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD): LD
I add my support to the author of the report, and to all the firemen and women throughout Scotland who protect us.As I think we are all agreed, the 62 per ce...
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Like other members, I thank Brian Sweeney for his extensive report. I also thank the Fire Brigades Union for its extensive response to the report. We have no...
Mike Pringle: LD
In my speech, I suggested that an advertising campaign is needed. It is about education—we need to tell people not to have their smoke alarm in a box in a cu...
Nigel Don: SNP
I endorse entirely the member's suggestion but—it is not the first time that I have had this conversation, even today—the lesson of life, which we well under...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): Lab
The member may want to consider the fact that people are faced with choices about how they spend their money and sometimes they cannot afford to replace the ...
Nigel Don: SNP
Of course there is a fraction of the population for whom money is the real issue. Some square batteries are not cheap, so I can see why people might decide n...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: SNP
I call George Foulkes, to be followed by Linda Fabiani.
George Foulkes (Lothians) (Lab): Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer, for calling me, and for the way in which you did so.I genuinely welcome the Scottish Government's initiative in arranging this ...
Stewart Maxwell: SNP
I am sure that Mr Foulkes means well, and his theory is interesting, but the facts show that cigarettes have been the major contributory factor in fire injur...
George Foulkes: Lab
I like to think so. I do not know whether Stewart Stevenson—sorry, I mean Stewart Maxwell. That was not in any way meant to be a compliment to or a slur on e...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): Con
Does George Foulkes accept that we find the development equally worrying?
George Foulkes: Lab
If not more so, to judge by the worried look on Baillie Aitken's face—I always think of him as Baillie Aitken, because he made such an impact in that role.We...
Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Presiding Officer, this is a worrying day, right enough, because I find myself agreeing with both George Foulkes and Bill Aitken.Scotland needs many things, ...
Stewart Maxwell: SNP
I appreciate what Linda Fabiani says about "Scotland Together" not covering that issue. Is she aware that Her Majesty's chief inspector of fire services for ...
Linda Fabiani: SNP
I take on board what Stewart Maxwell says, but in a climate in which we talk about the scourge of alcohol in Scotland's society, we must consider the issues ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con): Con
The motion highlights the Scottish Government's commitment to reduce fires and fire deaths by working in partnership with local government and the fire and r...
Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I welcome the timely report "Scotland Together" and many of its recommendations on how we can make inroads into our unacceptably high level of fires and fire...
John Farquhar Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): LD
Like many people in the chamber, I am delighted that we are having this debate on community fire safety, because anything that we are able to do to help to r...
Stewart Maxwell: SNP
I am sure that John Farquhar Munro is aware that hard-wired smoke detectors are the norm in new buildings. On his point about the batteries in smoke detector...
John Farquhar Munro: LD
That is good advice, because it is difficult even for adults with all the facilities to change the batteries with ease, and older people can find that partic...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): Lab
This is an important debate. Day and daily, people throughout Scotland are faced with the devastating reality of fire. George Foulkes brought home to us the ...
Michael Matheson (Falkirk West) (SNP): SNP
Earlier, the minister mentioned the approach that is now being taken to fire safety regulations for bed and breakfasts. Having made representations to him on...