Chamber
Plenary, 12 Nov 2009
12 Nov 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Community Fire Safety
Presiding Officer, this is a worrying day, right enough, because I find myself agreeing with both George Foulkes and Bill Aitken.
Scotland needs many things, and improvements to our record on fires and fire fatalities should be near the top of our list. It is important that we all pay tribute to the fire prevention work that is being done by fire boards and Scotland's firefighters. The report makes it clear that there is a long-term downward trend in fire-related deaths in Scotland, and much of that must be due to the hard work of the fire boards and firefighters in preventing fires and persuading people to take responsibility for their own safety. The downward trend is also due to the continuing improvements in the fire service that have come about through hard work and continuous training. We should note that contribution to the overall health of our nation.
However, I pick up on John Lamont's comments, as did the FBU, about the lack of evaluation. Surely we can work towards changing that. I also understand that there is a problem to be addressed in the number of fires that are started deliberately and without concern for others. That must be addressed through the actions of a number of agencies such as our police forces, and the educational efforts of our fire boards.
Looking at the report, I see that there is a bit of an elephant in the room. According to the report, alcohol plays a part in 62 per cent of fire deaths across Scotland. Almost two thirds of all fire deaths are connected to the consumption of alcohol, as far as is known, but the figures might be underreported; in fact, the report speculates that the figure probably is underreported, because there is no requirement on fire investigators to look for evidence of alcohol consumption being related to fire deaths. The figures will report only when there is overwhelming evidence that alcohol consumption was a factor in the fire. We are left to speculate on what the true figure might be; Nigel Don also referred to that when he mentioned analysing the figures from the top of the pyramid down to the base.
I assume that there is no way of determining how many fatalities are caused by a fire that has no link to alcohol consumption. However, the effects of alcohol on a sleeping resident could have played a part in their death. Senses are dulled by alcohol and lack of awareness certainly precludes precipitate action.
I know that my colleague Stewart Maxwell will talk more about safety cigarettes, and they can help, but we do not have such things as safety chip pans, frying pans or toasters, for example.
In addition, the report deals with fire fatalities without taking into account injuries that are caused by fire. It might be rather interesting to see how the breakdown of figures shows up circumstances in which the fire does not result in a fatality. A whole load of injuries might be caused by fires, but we do not have a note of them today. It would be instructive for us to have that information, so I encourage the minister to consider the possibility of pulling together more information to let us all see the extent of the problem. The Sweeney report majors heavily on joint working and collaboration in prevention, and the alcohol issue cuts across Government portfolios, so it would be useful to have that information. There is no information in the report about fires that cause no death or injury.
Scotland needs many things, and improvements to our record on fires and fire fatalities should be near the top of our list. It is important that we all pay tribute to the fire prevention work that is being done by fire boards and Scotland's firefighters. The report makes it clear that there is a long-term downward trend in fire-related deaths in Scotland, and much of that must be due to the hard work of the fire boards and firefighters in preventing fires and persuading people to take responsibility for their own safety. The downward trend is also due to the continuing improvements in the fire service that have come about through hard work and continuous training. We should note that contribution to the overall health of our nation.
However, I pick up on John Lamont's comments, as did the FBU, about the lack of evaluation. Surely we can work towards changing that. I also understand that there is a problem to be addressed in the number of fires that are started deliberately and without concern for others. That must be addressed through the actions of a number of agencies such as our police forces, and the educational efforts of our fire boards.
Looking at the report, I see that there is a bit of an elephant in the room. According to the report, alcohol plays a part in 62 per cent of fire deaths across Scotland. Almost two thirds of all fire deaths are connected to the consumption of alcohol, as far as is known, but the figures might be underreported; in fact, the report speculates that the figure probably is underreported, because there is no requirement on fire investigators to look for evidence of alcohol consumption being related to fire deaths. The figures will report only when there is overwhelming evidence that alcohol consumption was a factor in the fire. We are left to speculate on what the true figure might be; Nigel Don also referred to that when he mentioned analysing the figures from the top of the pyramid down to the base.
I assume that there is no way of determining how many fatalities are caused by a fire that has no link to alcohol consumption. However, the effects of alcohol on a sleeping resident could have played a part in their death. Senses are dulled by alcohol and lack of awareness certainly precludes precipitate action.
I know that my colleague Stewart Maxwell will talk more about safety cigarettes, and they can help, but we do not have such things as safety chip pans, frying pans or toasters, for example.
In addition, the report deals with fire fatalities without taking into account injuries that are caused by fire. It might be rather interesting to see how the breakdown of figures shows up circumstances in which the fire does not result in a fatality. A whole load of injuries might be caused by fires, but we do not have a note of them today. It would be instructive for us to have that information, so I encourage the minister to consider the possibility of pulling together more information to let us all see the extent of the problem. The Sweeney report majors heavily on joint working and collaboration in prevention, and the alcohol issue cuts across Government portfolios, so it would be useful to have that information. There is no information in the report about fires that cause no death or injury.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-5172, in the name of Fergus Ewing, on the future of community fire safety in Scotland.
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing):
SNP
The Scottish Government requested this afternoon's debate in order to give Parliament an opportunity to discuss how we can further reduce fires by working in...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
In September, I spoke in the parliamentary debate on the fire and rescue framework. In that debate I paid tribute—as did members from all political parties—t...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
It might be helpful to John Lamont and to any members who are concerned about the B and B regulations to hear that we will issue in the next few weeks a cons...
John Lamont:
Con
Indeed, I welcome that news from the minister and I am sure that many people in the sector in my constituency and throughout Scotland will also welcome it.My...
James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate. I thank Brian Sweeney and his team for the great amount of work that they clearly put into producing su...
Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
On the point about European regulation on fire-safe or RIP cigarettes, the member mentioned that Finland will introduce regulations—it will do so next April....
James Kelly:
Lab
As was indicated to David Taylor, the MP for North West Leicestershire, in reply to a question, the UK Government is sympathetic on this issue and is moving ...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
I add my support to the author of the report, and to all the firemen and women throughout Scotland who protect us.As I think we are all agreed, the 62 per ce...
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Like other members, I thank Brian Sweeney for his extensive report. I also thank the Fire Brigades Union for its extensive response to the report. We have no...
Mike Pringle:
LD
In my speech, I suggested that an advertising campaign is needed. It is about education—we need to tell people not to have their smoke alarm in a box in a cu...
Nigel Don:
SNP
I endorse entirely the member's suggestion but—it is not the first time that I have had this conversation, even today—the lesson of life, which we well under...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
The member may want to consider the fact that people are faced with choices about how they spend their money and sometimes they cannot afford to replace the ...
Nigel Don:
SNP
Of course there is a fraction of the population for whom money is the real issue. Some square batteries are not cheap, so I can see why people might decide n...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I call George Foulkes, to be followed by Linda Fabiani.
George Foulkes (Lothians) (Lab):
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer, for calling me, and for the way in which you did so.I genuinely welcome the Scottish Government's initiative in arranging this ...
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
I am sure that Mr Foulkes means well, and his theory is interesting, but the facts show that cigarettes have been the major contributory factor in fire injur...
George Foulkes:
Lab
I like to think so. I do not know whether Stewart Stevenson—sorry, I mean Stewart Maxwell. That was not in any way meant to be a compliment to or a slur on e...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
Does George Foulkes accept that we find the development equally worrying?
George Foulkes:
Lab
If not more so, to judge by the worried look on Baillie Aitken's face—I always think of him as Baillie Aitken, because he made such an impact in that role.We...
Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Presiding Officer, this is a worrying day, right enough, because I find myself agreeing with both George Foulkes and Bill Aitken.Scotland needs many things, ...
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
I appreciate what Linda Fabiani says about "Scotland Together" not covering that issue. Is she aware that Her Majesty's chief inspector of fire services for ...
Linda Fabiani:
SNP
I take on board what Stewart Maxwell says, but in a climate in which we talk about the scourge of alcohol in Scotland's society, we must consider the issues ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con):
Con
The motion highlights the Scottish Government's commitment to reduce fires and fire deaths by working in partnership with local government and the fire and r...
Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the timely report "Scotland Together" and many of its recommendations on how we can make inroads into our unacceptably high level of fires and fire...
John Farquhar Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD):
LD
Like many people in the chamber, I am delighted that we are having this debate on community fire safety, because anything that we are able to do to help to r...
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
I am sure that John Farquhar Munro is aware that hard-wired smoke detectors are the norm in new buildings. On his point about the batteries in smoke detector...
John Farquhar Munro:
LD
That is good advice, because it is difficult even for adults with all the facilities to change the batteries with ease, and older people can find that partic...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
This is an important debate. Day and daily, people throughout Scotland are faced with the devastating reality of fire. George Foulkes brought home to us the ...
Michael Matheson (Falkirk West) (SNP):
SNP
Earlier, the minister mentioned the approach that is now being taken to fire safety regulations for bed and breakfasts. Having made representations to him on...