Chamber
Plenary, 04 Nov 2009
04 Nov 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
National Parks
We were talking about bureaucracy, regulation and so on, and it occurred to me that the shackles of present crofting law, together with more regulation, offer a most interesting circumstance to deal with for crofts that happen to be in a national park. I know that there are some crofts in the Cairngorms national park, although they are very few compared with the crofts on the north and west coasts and on the islands, in areas where the member would like there to be more marine and coastal parks.
We should trust local people. In fact, my prognosis, having learned from the way in which national parks have worked in the hothouse areas around Loch Lomond and the Cairngorms, is that we ought to be thinking about a system of much more local government so that people could be involved with the process in a comprehensive fashion. As Peter Peacock said, it is not against the national interest to trust the local people to play an increasing part in the way in which these things are organised.
I am interested in whether members agree that there is a better way. I am sure that members have all been briefed, as I was, by the Scottish Wildlife Trust. The principles of the ecosystem approach that the trust outlines in its briefing involve the kinds of approaches that the national park structure wants to deliver, and they refer on to what should be happening in every area of scenic beauty or national importance, every SSSI or whatever. One principle is to
"Recognise that objectives for land and seas are society's choice".
We must acknowledge that people make choices. Another principle is to
"Encourage decentralized decision-making".
Absolutely. There need to be some differences in the way in which different parts of the Cairngorms national park are organised, so we must have a means to do that. Another principle is to
"Ensure economic policies encourage biodiversity".
Indeed. We will have to follow through on those principles and there are many more.
Another of the principles that is outlined in the briefing is to
"Accept and adapt to change".
Will Sarah Boyack tell me that, once there are many more national parks—as proposed in the Labour amendment—for the strategy group to look at, we will do better by biodiversity and do better by the people taking the decisions? Is that the best way ahead?
As I have said in the chamber previously, I was not a member during the first session of Parliament. My question why we want to set up national parks needs a much more detailed answer. If we are considering establishing coastal national parks, to which the Liberal Democrat amendment refers, the Scottish Wildlife Trust again has the right idea. It recognises that until the Marine (Scotland) Bill is enacted, we are not in a position to do anything further, so we should wait for that and we should also recognise that the bill proposes a range of new controls and regulations with regard to our sea coast and so on.
We should trust local people. In fact, my prognosis, having learned from the way in which national parks have worked in the hothouse areas around Loch Lomond and the Cairngorms, is that we ought to be thinking about a system of much more local government so that people could be involved with the process in a comprehensive fashion. As Peter Peacock said, it is not against the national interest to trust the local people to play an increasing part in the way in which these things are organised.
I am interested in whether members agree that there is a better way. I am sure that members have all been briefed, as I was, by the Scottish Wildlife Trust. The principles of the ecosystem approach that the trust outlines in its briefing involve the kinds of approaches that the national park structure wants to deliver, and they refer on to what should be happening in every area of scenic beauty or national importance, every SSSI or whatever. One principle is to
"Recognise that objectives for land and seas are society's choice".
We must acknowledge that people make choices. Another principle is to
"Encourage decentralized decision-making".
Absolutely. There need to be some differences in the way in which different parts of the Cairngorms national park are organised, so we must have a means to do that. Another principle is to
"Ensure economic policies encourage biodiversity".
Indeed. We will have to follow through on those principles and there are many more.
Another of the principles that is outlined in the briefing is to
"Accept and adapt to change".
Will Sarah Boyack tell me that, once there are many more national parks—as proposed in the Labour amendment—for the strategy group to look at, we will do better by biodiversity and do better by the people taking the decisions? Is that the best way ahead?
As I have said in the chamber previously, I was not a member during the first session of Parliament. My question why we want to set up national parks needs a much more detailed answer. If we are considering establishing coastal national parks, to which the Liberal Democrat amendment refers, the Scottish Wildlife Trust again has the right idea. It recognises that until the Marine (Scotland) Bill is enacted, we are not in a position to do anything further, so we should wait for that and we should also recognise that the bill proposes a range of new controls and regulations with regard to our sea coast and so on.
In the same item of business
The Minister for Environment (Roseanna Cunningham):
SNP
Today's debate provides me with an opportunity to set out the Government's thinking on the way ahead for national parks.To start with, I remind all members o...
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):
Lab
We know that this is not a filler debate that has been scheduled simply to enable others to go off to the by-election campaign. I have logged the fact that w...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
The member will remember our exchanges 10 years ago about the directly elected element of the park authorities. Does she accept that, after 10 years, it can ...
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
The member did not need to wait until today to hear my comments on that. In numerous debates since the establishment of the parks, I have said that that has ...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con):
Con
I begin by declaring an interest as a farmer.What a difference a year makes. It is important to record the progress that we have made since our previous deba...
Liam McArthur (Orkney) (LD):
LD
I welcome this debate on what has been a genuine post-devolution success for Scotland. Like Sarah Boyack, I am in no way disheartened by the suspicion that w...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
That concludes the opening speeches. We come to the open debate. As we have a little time in hand, members should feel free to take interventions and even to...
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
In his last novel, "The Duke's Children", Anthony Trollope, whom no one would regard as a radical, wrote of a Scottish Highlands that was afflicted by field ...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Yes—I will take this opportunity. Christopher Harvie must remember that people live in the parks and we need supermarkets. I, for one, need a supermarket, as...
Christopher Harvie:
SNP
I do remember that. I also remember that Tesco—that great liberating force—is about to descend on the town of Machynlleth, which has a farmers' market, a sma...
Peter Peacock (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the debate, as others have done, and I hope that it heralds a new period of action on national parks.The motion asks us to commend the two existing...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
In as relaxed a fashion as possible, I call Gil Paterson.
Gil Paterson (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Presiding Officer, I apologise to you and other members for the fact that I need to leave a bit early, unfortunately. I hope that members forgive me—I have a...
Members:
Oh!
Gil Paterson:
SNP
I will tell you about them in private. They are not as naughty as members may think.Few cities have, as Glasgow does, a resource close to them like greater L...
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I am pleased to be able to take part in today's debate. Our two national parks, the Cairngorms and Loch Lomond and the Trossachs, play a large part in the li...
Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Does the member welcome the plans that have been announced to assess 60 abandoned cottages and farmsteads in the Cairngorms for possible conversion to afford...
Jamie McGrigor:
Con
Absolutely—that is marvellous. Consideration should be given to using the rural empty properties grant for that purpose.Constituents in the Cairngorms nation...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Oh!
Jamie McGrigor:
Con
Do you want me to go on?
Members:
No.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
We are spellbound.
Jamie McGrigor:
Con
I wish the minister's national parks strategy group every success, and I hope that any further sensible recommendations can be implemented quickly in the int...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate—and I have been musing on some of the interesting contributions that members have made up to this point.Our ...
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Rob Gibson:
SNP
I certainly will.
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
I note that the atmosphere is slightly more relaxed this afternoon.Rob Gibson makes a very good point, which follows what Peter Peacock said. Will Rob Gibson...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
We were talking about bureaucracy, regulation and so on, and it occurred to me that the shackles of present crofting law, together with more regulation, offe...
Liam McArthur:
LD
As a point of clarification, I think that the member was talking about the Labour amendment, which refers to establishing more national parks. I acknowledged...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
I am happy with Liam McArthur's emphasis.