Chamber
Plenary, 10 Sep 2009
10 Sep 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Fire and Rescue Framework
That is my very point: we should not have to wait very long. After all, good ideas do not necessarily need to come with too many statistics attached. Although the issue is reserved and decisions in that regard have to be taken elsewhere, it is important that we place some emphasis on it. As always, time will rush away from us.
There are many things that we can do to help the situation. Members have mentioned smoke detectors, but there is no use having one if it does not have any batteries—and it is no use at all if it is sitting in the cupboard, even if it has batteries.
We must ensure that the right things are being done in the right places. Yet again, we have to think about cigarette lighters and, indeed, electrical equipment, which I believe is still the most hazardous element in our old building stock. My point is not so much that such hazards exist and must be dealt with, but that we should not expect the fire brigade to deal with all of them. For one thing, our children should be educated in such matters in our schools; for another, we are all educated through our media, but I have to say that do not recall any recent advertisements highlighting the importance of and sense in having smoke detectors and not leaving lit cigarettes lying around. I certainly remember such ads in the past and, in that respect, we should explore other such routes in other media.
In all of this, we need to strike a balance. For example, I am very grateful to the minister for having discussions on the effect of new regulations on bed and breakfasts. As originally drafted, the regulations seemed unduly onerous, would have been ridiculously expensive and would not really have helped the situation. However, it seems that, as a result of those discussions, the regulations might be relaxed, which is a sensible move. That shows that one can swing too far and that, in all such matters, one must strike a balance.
On the issue of fatalities, I should at this point put on my ex-factory engineer hat and suggest that the biggest hazards in our country are industrial ones. Outside of a plane crash or terrorist incident, the most likely cause of an event incurring a large number of fatalities will be the build-up of explosive materials, almost inevitably as the result of an industrial problem. I realise that that issue, too, is reserved, but we simply need to keep our eye on the ball and ensure that industry does everything possible to prevent the egress of flammable and dangerous materials.
There are many things that we can do to help the situation. Members have mentioned smoke detectors, but there is no use having one if it does not have any batteries—and it is no use at all if it is sitting in the cupboard, even if it has batteries.
We must ensure that the right things are being done in the right places. Yet again, we have to think about cigarette lighters and, indeed, electrical equipment, which I believe is still the most hazardous element in our old building stock. My point is not so much that such hazards exist and must be dealt with, but that we should not expect the fire brigade to deal with all of them. For one thing, our children should be educated in such matters in our schools; for another, we are all educated through our media, but I have to say that do not recall any recent advertisements highlighting the importance of and sense in having smoke detectors and not leaving lit cigarettes lying around. I certainly remember such ads in the past and, in that respect, we should explore other such routes in other media.
In all of this, we need to strike a balance. For example, I am very grateful to the minister for having discussions on the effect of new regulations on bed and breakfasts. As originally drafted, the regulations seemed unduly onerous, would have been ridiculously expensive and would not really have helped the situation. However, it seems that, as a result of those discussions, the regulations might be relaxed, which is a sensible move. That shows that one can swing too far and that, in all such matters, one must strike a balance.
On the issue of fatalities, I should at this point put on my ex-factory engineer hat and suggest that the biggest hazards in our country are industrial ones. Outside of a plane crash or terrorist incident, the most likely cause of an event incurring a large number of fatalities will be the build-up of explosive materials, almost inevitably as the result of an industrial problem. I realise that that issue, too, is reserved, but we simply need to keep our eye on the ball and ensure that industry does everything possible to prevent the egress of flammable and dangerous materials.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business this morning is a debate on motion S3M-4810, in the name of Fergus Ewing, on the fire and rescue framework.We have a...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing):
SNP
The Scottish Government requested this debate to give the Parliament an opportunity to discuss our continued commitment to ensuring that Scotland has an effi...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
As part of the review, will the minister ensure that IRMP is not just about cost cutting, but does what it is supposed to do?
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
During the past three years there has been an increase of 12 per cent in revenue funding, which I think we all welcome. I assure the member that cost cutting...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
I concur with the minister's remarks in respect of the late Ewan Williamson, and on behalf of my party I send our condolences to his family during this diffi...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):
LD
We will support both the motion and Labour's amendment.I listened carefully to the minister's comments, and I am grateful for the insight that he gave the Pa...
Alasdair Allan (Western Isles) (SNP):
SNP
I appreciate that the member acknowledges the importance of the work that retained firefighters do. In that light, can he explain why the only Lib Dem member...
Robert Brown:
LD
I think that I am right in saying that my colleague, the former member of the European Parliament for the Scottish Liberal Democrats, took a particular view ...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
I endorse the comments of the minister and others on the tragic loss of Ewan Williamson.The Scottish Conservatives welcome the publication of the "Draft Fire...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We come to the open debate. I repeat that we have some flexibility with time, so members should feel free to take interventions.
Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I associate myself with the minister's remarks on the tragic death of Ewan Williamson. I know that the thoughts of all members go out to his friends, his fam...
Robert Brown:
LD
Has Stewart Maxwell been struck, as I have been, by the fact that the majority of fatal casualties occur in fires in dwellings in which smoke detectors are n...
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
Robert Brown makes a salient point. There has been huge success in bringing smoke detectors to the public's attention. Many people install them and change th...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
I express my sincere condolences to the family of Ewan Williamson for their grievous loss. I also state my admiration for the bravery of my fellow trade unio...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
It might be useful to make it clear that the Government has an entirely open mind in respect of governance issues. We appreciate and have discussed with the ...
Bill Butler:
Lab
I am grateful to the minister for his assertion that the Government has an open mind on governance issues. That chimes with his opening speech, in which he s...
Angela Constance (Livingston) (SNP):
SNP
Like other members, I associate myself with the minister's tribute to Ewan Williamson. Many firefighters in my constituency knew and worked with Ewan. I also...
Peter Peacock (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I, too, associate myself with members' comments about Ewan Williamson.I will be fairly brief and will concentrate on a subject that has been mentioned only i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
That is a good time to stop, certainly.
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD):
LD
It is a pity that we could not have had this debate yesterday, when I understand that an unusually high number of emergency service personnel from throughout...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Is the member aware that I have an excellent relationship with Mr Raeburn from his party?
Jim Tolson:
LD
I was not aware of that detail. However, when it comes to working with others, the minister might recall that, when the Liberal Democrats raised the issue of...
Jamie Hepburn (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate the Government's draft fire and rescue framework. Like other members, I pay tribute to Scotland's 8,310 firefighters and ...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
It would be hard to criticise the Scottish Government's motion or the minister's sincere speech. However, I am sure the minister agrees that there are issues...
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Like colleagues, I pay tribute to the work and dedication of the fire service. The untimely death of Ewan Williamson reminds us that some of the jobs that ar...
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
I appreciate that we are in the early days and that there are not many statistics on the impact. We should not jump to conclusions too early, but it is certa...
Nigel Don:
SNP
That is my very point: we should not have to wait very long. After all, good ideas do not necessarily need to come with too many statistics attached. Althoug...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab):
Lab
I am pleased to take part in this debate. Like other members, I pay tribute to Ewan Williamson, who gave his life serving his community.The motion and amendm...
Christina McKelvie (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I add my condolences to those of my colleagues from throughout the Parliament to Ewan Williamson's family, friends and colleagues. I pay tribute to all our f...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
It is important to provide clarification that the point is not about firefighters enforcing the standards; it is about the services around them, and ensuring...