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Chamber

Plenary, 10 Sep 2009

10 Sep 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Fire and Rescue Framework
Butler, Bill Lab Glasgow Anniesland Watch on SPTV
I express my sincere condolences to the family of Ewan Williamson for their grievous loss. I also state my admiration for the bravery of my fellow trade unionists in the fire service.

Some members will recall that, when we passed the Fire (Scotland) Act 2005 on 23 February 2005, there was general agreement that the then current legislation required to be updated to mirror the breadth of the role of the modern fire service's multifarious functions and to deliver a clear framework of responsibility for fire safety. No political party that is still represented in the Parliament dissented from that, which was right. Indeed, the previous Executive should be given credit for its recognition that the extant legislation of 1947 did not and could not possibly take proper account of the evolution of the fire service over more than half a century.

Section 40 of the Fire (Scotland) Act 2005 placed a duty on ministers to produce a fire and rescue framework for Scotland. It is four years since the first fire framework document was produced; now seems to be an opportune time to revise it where necessary in the light of experience of its operation. I congratulate the Government on bringing forward a draft framework for consultation.

Given that few subjects are more serious than the safety of our constituents and the firefighters who are entrusted with that task, I welcome the opportunity to speak about a number of matters that seem to me to need revision. We need to ensure that the fire and rescue framework, which is key to the delivery of public safety, is regularly updated in order to maintain its effectiveness.

I will focus on governance and structures. In its comprehensive briefing, the FBU contends that governance and structures are the central issue in improving the existing framework. I tend to agree. The main purpose of the former statutory body, the Scottish Central Fire Brigades Advisory Council, was to establish common standards that would ensure that all fire services in Scotland would take a consistent approach. That was a sensible and necessary prerequisite for the maintenance of public safety. However, as a result of the 2005 act, that statutory body was abolished and replaced by an informal structure. The result was a loss of common standards and of the consistent approach that is essential to delivery of a coherent and resilient fire and rescue service.

No one is arguing that there should not be flexibility that will allow each fire and rescue service to meet special challenges in its area—Grangemouth springs to mind in that regard. However, as the FBU has said, that necessary flexibility needs

"to be within a set of national parameters that ensures the essential consistency throughout the country."

The problem is that a gap has, with the abolition of the previous statutory body, become evident in the structure. That gap needs to be filled.

The ministerial advisory unit has become the central body, but the experience of those at the front line is that there is an inherent conflict, the genesis of which lies in the terms of the concordat that was agreed between the Scottish Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. The commitment by ministers not to micromanage public services does not sit well with the 2005 act's requirement that the minister produce a framework document that gives direction to fire and rescue authorities. In the union's view, that has led to

"a fragmentation of service delivery across the 8 FRAs which compromises national resilience".

I hope that all colleagues agree that that is a worrying and wholly unacceptable development. The Government must take action to meet firefighters' profound concerns about that aspect of how the 2005 framework has evolved.

The FBU is correct to argue that, although it is helpful, chapter 1 of the draft framework, which details the roles and responsibilities of partners and stakeholders, needs to be set

"within the context of a recognised, workable and agreed central structure."

We cannot allow the situation to continue in which eight fire and rescue authorities take eight different approaches. That can cause, and has caused, severe and unnecessary difficulties in respect of cross-border assistance and co-ordination at major incidents. Potentially, it could lead to an unacceptable inconsistency of approach in the development of integrated risk management planning.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson): NPA
Good morning. The first item of business this morning is a debate on motion S3M-4810, in the name of Fergus Ewing, on the fire and rescue framework.We have a...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing): SNP
The Scottish Government requested this debate to give the Parliament an opportunity to discuss our continued commitment to ensuring that Scotland has an effi...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): Lab
As part of the review, will the minister ensure that IRMP is not just about cost cutting, but does what it is supposed to do?
Fergus Ewing: SNP
During the past three years there has been an increase of 12 per cent in revenue funding, which I think we all welcome. I assure the member that cost cutting...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab): Lab
I concur with the minister's remarks in respect of the late Ewan Williamson, and on behalf of my party I send our condolences to his family during this diffi...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): LD
We will support both the motion and Labour's amendment.I listened carefully to the minister's comments, and I am grateful for the insight that he gave the Pa...
Alasdair Allan (Western Isles) (SNP): SNP
I appreciate that the member acknowledges the importance of the work that retained firefighters do. In that light, can he explain why the only Lib Dem member...
Robert Brown: LD
I think that I am right in saying that my colleague, the former member of the European Parliament for the Scottish Liberal Democrats, took a particular view ...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con): Con
I endorse the comments of the minister and others on the tragic loss of Ewan Williamson.The Scottish Conservatives welcome the publication of the "Draft Fire...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
We come to the open debate. I repeat that we have some flexibility with time, so members should feel free to take interventions.
Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I associate myself with the minister's remarks on the tragic death of Ewan Williamson. I know that the thoughts of all members go out to his friends, his fam...
Robert Brown: LD
Has Stewart Maxwell been struck, as I have been, by the fact that the majority of fatal casualties occur in fires in dwellings in which smoke detectors are n...
Stewart Maxwell: SNP
Robert Brown makes a salient point. There has been huge success in bringing smoke detectors to the public's attention. Many people install them and change th...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab): Lab
I express my sincere condolences to the family of Ewan Williamson for their grievous loss. I also state my admiration for the bravery of my fellow trade unio...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
It might be useful to make it clear that the Government has an entirely open mind in respect of governance issues. We appreciate and have discussed with the ...
Bill Butler: Lab
I am grateful to the minister for his assertion that the Government has an open mind on governance issues. That chimes with his opening speech, in which he s...
Angela Constance (Livingston) (SNP): SNP
Like other members, I associate myself with the minister's tribute to Ewan Williamson. Many firefighters in my constituency knew and worked with Ewan. I also...
Peter Peacock (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): Lab
I, too, associate myself with members' comments about Ewan Williamson.I will be fairly brief and will concentrate on a subject that has been mentioned only i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan): SNP
That is a good time to stop, certainly.
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD): LD
It is a pity that we could not have had this debate yesterday, when I understand that an unusually high number of emergency service personnel from throughout...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
Is the member aware that I have an excellent relationship with Mr Raeburn from his party?
Jim Tolson: LD
I was not aware of that detail. However, when it comes to working with others, the minister might recall that, when the Liberal Democrats raised the issue of...
Jamie Hepburn (Central Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate the Government's draft fire and rescue framework. Like other members, I pay tribute to Scotland's 8,310 firefighters and ...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): Lab
It would be hard to criticise the Scottish Government's motion or the minister's sincere speech. However, I am sure the minister agrees that there are issues...
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Like colleagues, I pay tribute to the work and dedication of the fire service. The untimely death of Ewan Williamson reminds us that some of the jobs that ar...
Stewart Maxwell: SNP
I appreciate that we are in the early days and that there are not many statistics on the impact. We should not jump to conclusions too early, but it is certa...
Nigel Don: SNP
That is my very point: we should not have to wait very long. After all, good ideas do not necessarily need to come with too many statistics attached. Althoug...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): Lab
I am pleased to take part in this debate. Like other members, I pay tribute to Ewan Williamson, who gave his life serving his community.The motion and amendm...
Christina McKelvie (Central Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I add my condolences to those of my colleagues from throughout the Parliament to Ewan Williamson's family, friends and colleagues. I pay tribute to all our f...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab): Lab
It is important to provide clarification that the point is not about firefighters enforcing the standards; it is about the services around them, and ensuring...