Chamber
Plenary, 02 Sep 2009
02 Sep 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am pleased to speak in this afternoon's debate as we consider the general principles of the bill. However, as I am a Glasgow MSP, members would expect me to focus on the elements that will directly affect my constituents.
Glasgow has just gone through a sweeping and brutal series of school closures—eleven primary schools and nine nursery schools were axed. I know at first hand how, when a local authority gets it badly wrong in relation to school closures, the pain is felt by the whole community, particularly the children and parents who are affected. Such open wounds will take a long time to heal in my city, and I suspect that many parents and their families will never forgive Glasgow City Council.
I believe that when a local authority is planning a fundamental alteration to the school estate, such as was planned in Glasgow, it is not good enough for proposals to appear as a bolt from the blue. Once a council has put forward a strategy for closing and merging a raft of schools, I suspect that that council's views become entrenched and that the ruling council group becomes defensive with regard to any criticism of such proposals. That might be the case irrespective of the council and the party that is in control.
In Glasgow, many parents read about the closure proposals in the newspapers before they got a letter from the council. That is not acceptable. The anger about that, and the feeling that secret schemes were being cooked up in back rooms for months, while everyone else was none the wiser, meant that the proposals did not go down well. That is no way to treat parents or children.
I welcome the strong steps in the bill to improve the consultation process. However, I suggest that when a local authority is considering rationalisation of its school estate in such a significant way, guidelines should provide for a pre-consultation exercise to be undertaken. I am open to suggestions on the nature of such an exercise and how it would be conducted, but it should be undertaken before any details emerge and views become entrenched.
Glasgow has just gone through a sweeping and brutal series of school closures—eleven primary schools and nine nursery schools were axed. I know at first hand how, when a local authority gets it badly wrong in relation to school closures, the pain is felt by the whole community, particularly the children and parents who are affected. Such open wounds will take a long time to heal in my city, and I suspect that many parents and their families will never forgive Glasgow City Council.
I believe that when a local authority is planning a fundamental alteration to the school estate, such as was planned in Glasgow, it is not good enough for proposals to appear as a bolt from the blue. Once a council has put forward a strategy for closing and merging a raft of schools, I suspect that that council's views become entrenched and that the ruling council group becomes defensive with regard to any criticism of such proposals. That might be the case irrespective of the council and the party that is in control.
In Glasgow, many parents read about the closure proposals in the newspapers before they got a letter from the council. That is not acceptable. The anger about that, and the feeling that secret schemes were being cooked up in back rooms for months, while everyone else was none the wiser, meant that the proposals did not go down well. That is no way to treat parents or children.
I welcome the strong steps in the bill to improve the consultation process. However, I suggest that when a local authority is considering rationalisation of its school estate in such a significant way, guidelines should provide for a pre-consultation exercise to be undertaken. I am open to suggestions on the nature of such an exercise and how it would be conducted, but it should be undertaken before any details emerge and views become entrenched.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-4734, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on stage 1 of the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Bill.I am delighte...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Fiona Hyslop):
SNP
I express my gratitude to Karen Whitefield and the other members of the Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee for their careful, thorough and co...
George Foulkes (Lothians) (Lab):
Lab
The cabinet secretary is dealing with her manifesto commitments in relation to rural schools. Can she confirm that there was also a clear manifesto commitmen...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
Yes, I acknowledge that commitment. I am delighted that we now have record lows in class sizes and record lows in pupil teacher ratios. Indeed, on my visits ...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab):
Lab
Is the cabinet secretary willing to urge local authorities that are undertaking school closure exercises, such as the City of Edinburgh Council, to follow th...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
As the member will understand, the consultation to which he referred is a matter for the City of Edinburgh Council. He will note on page 19 of the bill and i...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
In the event that a consultation does not meet the best practice requirements that the cabinet secretary has outlined, will parents have recourse to somebody...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
Indeed, yes. I refer the member to the bill. One proposal is for ministerial call-in: if a consultation process is not carried out properly, parents can refe...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
Does the minister accept that those of us who have some concerns about that in no way want to diminish the safeguards in the bill for rural schools? Extendin...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
It is important to recognise the strength of the improvements on consultation for all schools, including semi-rural schools with transport issues. The defini...
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee in the stage 1 debate on the Schools (Consultation) (S...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab):
Lab
We came back from the recess to the fall-out from the al-Megrahi debacle and the decision to postpone the introduction of the children's hearings bill, and t...
George Foulkes:
Lab
Oh, no!
Ken Macintosh:
Lab
I was extending the hand of friendship, Mr Foulkes.A number of issues with the bill remain, but I hope that with a little movement from the cabinet secretary...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
This is an important point. The committee convener stated that rural schools require special consideration. Does Ken Macintosh agree with that? If so, what s...
Ken Macintosh:
Lab
The committee convener made that point but then went on to say that the committee wants the Government to keep the three criteria under active consideration....
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Ken Macintosh:
Lab
Yes.
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
To clarify, there was not consensus on the consultation, but quite a polarised response. However, the compromise and new creative solution of ministerial cal...
Ken Macintosh:
Lab
I think that there is still some anxiety about whether ministers should have a call-in at all, but I recognise that that is an improvement on the current pro...
Elizabeth Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I apologise on behalf of my colleague Murdo Fraser, who is absent from the debate because his wife Emma has just given birth to their second child, Lucy Eliz...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
The Liberal Democrats welcome the opportunity to speak about the bill.The issue is important. As members may be aware, the City of Edinburgh Council is consu...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
That is an important part of the debate. Even under the current system, the transport issues that are associated with school closures are subject to scrutiny...
Margaret Smith:
LD
I understand what the cabinet secretary is saying, but I think that there is a potential lack of clarity in the way in which those three criteria are set out...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I am pleased to speak in this afternoon's debate as we consider the general principles of the bill. However, as I am a Glasgow MSP, members would expect me t...
Ken Macintosh:
Lab
Does Mr Doris believe, given the nature of his remarks, that rural and urban school closures should be treated identically, or does he think that different c...
Bob Doris:
SNP
Given that the SNP's manifesto commitment—which I suspect members are only too keen to see us fulfil—specifically mentioned rural schools, it is only right t...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
The member made an interesting argument about calling it an educational analysis statement as opposed to an educational benefits statement. That cuts to the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Mr Doris, you should keep an eye on the time.
Bob Doris:
SNP
Of course. I thank the cabinet secretary for her helpful clarification.I conclude by saying that I am delighted with the core change to allow call-in by the ...