Chamber
Plenary, 14 May 2009
14 May 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Scottish Local Government (Elections) Bill: Stage 1
I ask the minister to respond when he sums up. Sorry—I am pressed for time.
The costs of the bill have been a general concern for the committee throughout its scrutiny of the bill. The committee expects that the Scottish Government will provide information on how the costs will be split between the Government and local authorities as soon as possible.
The other main provision in the bill is to allow voting information down to polling station level to be published. I am sure that we all agree that it will be helpful to us to have information such as the number of preferences cast and the votes transferred between candidates at each stage. Equally, I am sure that we all agree with the minister that a secret ballot is fundamental to democracy and that any changes must protect that fundamental right. We agree with the minister that this is a balancing act that we have to get right. The Electoral Commission appears to agree that using a threshold of 200 votes will help to protect a voter's anonymity. As we say in our report, it is clear that the proposal in the bill to publish voter information at polling station level is welcome, provided that adequate measures are put in place to ensure the secrecy of the ballot.
I have spoken about the potential costs of public information campaigns and the e-counting system, and I return to the issue of costs. I thank the Finance Committee for its report to us on the financial memorandum to the bill. We raised a number of issues arising from that report with the minister.
The main issue is the uncertainty over what the split of costs will be between central and local government. Although the minister has promised to nail down the costs for e-counting as soon as possible, and to try to pre-commit that money before the next spending review, we have not received the same commitment for other costs. We are aware of concerns about the need for all of this to be adequately funded, and we have recommended that the Scottish Government should take account of those concerns in determining local government funding requirements for the next spending review.
I have spoken about the concerns that we have highlighted in our report. We have made a number of recommendations, particularly with regard to the important area of funding. I hope that the Scottish Government will address that issue.
However, as I have said, there is broad agreement with the aims of the bill. The committee recommends that Parliament should agree to the general principles of the bill.
The costs of the bill have been a general concern for the committee throughout its scrutiny of the bill. The committee expects that the Scottish Government will provide information on how the costs will be split between the Government and local authorities as soon as possible.
The other main provision in the bill is to allow voting information down to polling station level to be published. I am sure that we all agree that it will be helpful to us to have information such as the number of preferences cast and the votes transferred between candidates at each stage. Equally, I am sure that we all agree with the minister that a secret ballot is fundamental to democracy and that any changes must protect that fundamental right. We agree with the minister that this is a balancing act that we have to get right. The Electoral Commission appears to agree that using a threshold of 200 votes will help to protect a voter's anonymity. As we say in our report, it is clear that the proposal in the bill to publish voter information at polling station level is welcome, provided that adequate measures are put in place to ensure the secrecy of the ballot.
I have spoken about the potential costs of public information campaigns and the e-counting system, and I return to the issue of costs. I thank the Finance Committee for its report to us on the financial memorandum to the bill. We raised a number of issues arising from that report with the minister.
The main issue is the uncertainty over what the split of costs will be between central and local government. Although the minister has promised to nail down the costs for e-counting as soon as possible, and to try to pre-commit that money before the next spending review, we have not received the same commitment for other costs. We are aware of concerns about the need for all of this to be adequately funded, and we have recommended that the Scottish Government should take account of those concerns in determining local government funding requirements for the next spending review.
I have spoken about the concerns that we have highlighted in our report. We have made a number of recommendations, particularly with regard to the important area of funding. I hope that the Scottish Government will address that issue.
However, as I have said, there is broad agreement with the aims of the bill. The committee recommends that Parliament should agree to the general principles of the bill.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-3964, in the name of Bruce Crawford, on the Scottish Local Government (Elections) Bill. I remind members ...
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Bruce Crawford):
SNP
I thank the Local Government and Communities Committee for its work in considering the bill and preparing the stage 1 report, and I thank those who gave evid...
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):
Lab
As the convener of the lead committee on the bill, I am pleased to be taking part in the debate. I thank all those who gave us written and oral evidence and ...
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Duncan McNeil:
Lab
I ask the minister to respond when he sums up. Sorry—I am pressed for time. The costs of the bill have been a general concern for the committee throughout it...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I have been informed that one speaker will not be taking part in the debate, so we are not quite as tight for time as we were. Nonetheless, we do not have a ...
Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab):
Lab
I speak in support of the bill on behalf of the Scottish Labour Party. I thank the Local Government and Communities Committee for the report, and the ministe...
Tricia Marwick (Central Fife) (SNP):
SNP
The member talks about accepting the independent Gould report, but why did the Labour and Liberal Executive, when it introduced the bill to couple the electi...
Andy Kerr:
Lab
Because we thought that the bill that we introduced offered a better way in which to hold elections. It increased voter turnout, attention and participation ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
I call Jim Tolson.
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD):
LD
This is a difficult—
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con):
Con
But—
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Carry on, Mr Tolson.
Jim Tolson:
LD
I did wonder, but the order of speakers is in your hands, Presiding Officer.This is a difficult debate, not because there will be much argument between the p...
Gavin Brown (Lothians) (Con):
Con
Will the member give way?
Jim Tolson:
LD
I am sorry, but I am rather tight for time. I beg Mr Brown's pardon.Voter turnout was not the only concern that many people had over a decoupled election; th...
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
Will Mr Tolson please give way?
Jim Tolson:
LD
I am tight for time, but the minister will have a chance to respond when he sums up.
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
I wish that he would give way—
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Order. Mr Tolson, you should address the motion.
Jim Tolson:
LD
Liberal Democrats have long fought for the autonomy of local government and for recognition of the importance and significance of governance at that level.Th...
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. A moment ago, you ruled that the member should stick to the motion that is under debate. He is straying from that and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I take the point of order. I was going to tell the member that he must address the motion to agree the first principles of the bill and link his remarks to t...
Jim Tolson:
LD
I will move on, if it is your wish that I do so.The Liberal Democrats will support the bill at stage 1 in today's vote. However, the Government must consider...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Now—I am sure that it will have been worth waiting for—I call David McLetchie.
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con):
Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The voice of the righteous cannot be silenced for long in Scotland's Parliament."I told you so," is often a rather smug and sel...
Andy Kerr rose—
Lab
David McLetchie:
Con
Here comes the old regime.
Andy Kerr:
Lab
Attacking the smugness of the new partnership in the Scottish Parliament between the Tories and the SNP.Does the member believe that every local councillor w...
David McLetchie:
Con
In those days, the results of local elections were undoubtedly down to a mixture of the two—I fully acknowledge that—and we all know the consequences. That w...