Chamber
Plenary, 08 Jan 2009
08 Jan 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Gaza (Humanitarian Disaster)
Few of us who spoke in Pauline McNeill's members' business debate on the last day before the Christmas recess could have expected the escalation in violence that we have witnessed in Gaza over the past two weeks. Indeed, all members will be united in urging an immediate and sustainable cease-fire.
The Scottish Conservatives deplore the tragic deaths of civilians in Gaza, including those of nearly 200 children. However—I make no apology for repeating my words of the previous debate—it is difficult to achieve the moral high ground on human rights with the Israelis given the fact that, within living memory, 6 million Jews were exterminated with absolutely no regard taken of their human rights. Of course, that does not give the Israelis carte blanche to ignore the human rights of their Palestinian neighbours.
I am glad that today's motion confines itself to what we, in Scotland, can do in a humanitarian role in Gaza. Foreign relations are the responsibility of the UK Government. Although it may have suited the First Minister's image of himself as a world statesman to call for an Israeli cease-fire, it is difficult to imagine how his plea specifically for Israeli restraint could prompt anything in Gaza other than the question, "Who is Alex Salmond?" What we can do here in Scotland is start to show a little more intellectual honesty in the way in which we report and comment on the Palestinian crisis. Even-handedness is not about accepting every claim from Hamas as gospel and every counter claim from Israel as propaganda. A little more scepticism might be applied to the claims from both sides.
In the members' business debate that we held before Christmas, there seemed to be little recognition among those who spoke of the fact that there are two sides to the conflict. Member after member condemned the Israeli blockade of Gaza—indeed, I did so myself—but with little apparent recognition of how and why it began. Hamas is a militant organisation that is funded by Iran, which itself is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and is widely believed to be developing nuclear weapons. It is the right of the sovereign state of Israel to protect itself and its people from militants. However inconvenient that fact might be, and however short memories have become, Israel happens to be boxed in by nations that are hell-bent on its obliteration. Indeed, the Hamas charter of 1988—which has never been rescinded—proclaims the necessity of Israel's destruction
"at the hands of Islam".
We are told that Israel's response has been disproportionate because more Palestinians than Israelis have been killed so far. Should we just ignore Israeli claims that Hamas has deliberately situated weapons under apartment blocks and in mosques and hospitals? Independent UN observers confirm that 75 per cent of the dead in Gaza so far have been Hamas terrorists.
The Scottish Conservatives deplore the tragic deaths of civilians in Gaza, including those of nearly 200 children. However—I make no apology for repeating my words of the previous debate—it is difficult to achieve the moral high ground on human rights with the Israelis given the fact that, within living memory, 6 million Jews were exterminated with absolutely no regard taken of their human rights. Of course, that does not give the Israelis carte blanche to ignore the human rights of their Palestinian neighbours.
I am glad that today's motion confines itself to what we, in Scotland, can do in a humanitarian role in Gaza. Foreign relations are the responsibility of the UK Government. Although it may have suited the First Minister's image of himself as a world statesman to call for an Israeli cease-fire, it is difficult to imagine how his plea specifically for Israeli restraint could prompt anything in Gaza other than the question, "Who is Alex Salmond?" What we can do here in Scotland is start to show a little more intellectual honesty in the way in which we report and comment on the Palestinian crisis. Even-handedness is not about accepting every claim from Hamas as gospel and every counter claim from Israel as propaganda. A little more scepticism might be applied to the claims from both sides.
In the members' business debate that we held before Christmas, there seemed to be little recognition among those who spoke of the fact that there are two sides to the conflict. Member after member condemned the Israeli blockade of Gaza—indeed, I did so myself—but with little apparent recognition of how and why it began. Hamas is a militant organisation that is funded by Iran, which itself is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and is widely believed to be developing nuclear weapons. It is the right of the sovereign state of Israel to protect itself and its people from militants. However inconvenient that fact might be, and however short memories have become, Israel happens to be boxed in by nations that are hell-bent on its obliteration. Indeed, the Hamas charter of 1988—which has never been rescinded—proclaims the necessity of Israel's destruction
"at the hands of Islam".
We are told that Israel's response has been disproportionate because more Palestinians than Israelis have been killed so far. Should we just ignore Israeli claims that Hamas has deliberately situated weapons under apartment blocks and in mosques and hospitals? Independent UN observers confirm that 75 per cent of the dead in Gaza so far have been Hamas terrorists.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-3179, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on the humanitarian disaster in Gaza.
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon):
SNP
First, let me take the opportunity to thank all parties for their support and co-operation in securing today's very important debate.The scenes of devastatio...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
This morning, it is right that we should spend some time discussing how Scotland can respond to the humanitarian disaster that is happening in the Gaza strip...
Ted Brocklebank (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Few of us who spoke in Pauline McNeill's members' business debate on the last day before the Christmas recess could have expected the escalation in violence ...
Bill Wilson (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way on that point?
Ted Brocklebank:
Con
No, I will not. I have only four minutes.Bringing about a cease-fire now is no easy matter, as there must be a cease-fire on both sides. It is pointless to d...
Hugh O'Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
The Palestinian people are paying a dear price for Europe's guilt about what happened to European Jews. I find Mr Brocklebank's comments completely inappropr...
Jackson Carlaw (West of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Will the member give way?
Hugh O'Donnell:
LD
I am sorry, but I have only four minutes.The overwhelming use of force by Israel and the unacceptable loss of civilian lives are radicalising moderate Palest...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
We now move to the open debate. There will be four-minute speeches, and I remind members that no one-minute warnings will be given and that they should there...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I thank the Scottish Government and all political parties for acting swiftly to enable us to have this debate. It is important that the Scottish Parliament s...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
Like many others, over the past fortnight I have found myself shouting at the television as I have watched the carnage in Gaza. There may be terrorists in Ga...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I will not join the many armchair experts on the complex situation in the middle east and, in particular, the Palestine-Israeli conflict. Instead, I turn to ...
Marlyn Glen (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
I am pleased that members have been given the opportunity to come together in this debate and I am sure that we can unanimously agree the terms of the motion...
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
Ted Brocklebank attempted to be fair and even-handed, but this is not the time to be fair and even-handed; this is the time for us to express our horror at w...
Sandra White:
SNP
Is the member aware that Alyn Smith MEP has a motion in the European Parliament on exactly that point? It proposes that we keep up the pressure on Israel and...
Robin Harper:
Green
I thank Sandra White for that useful intervention. We can all lean on the other MEPs to support that motion.The decision in December to support the upgrade i...
Bashir Ahmad (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I thank the Scottish Government for lodging the motion.Since 27 December, we have witnessed an assault on Gaza that is unlike anything before. The numbers in...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in this important debate. It is right and proper that the Scottish Parliament should express its view on the crisis in...
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD):
LD
Like millions of other people, I am absolutely shocked by the huge scale of the Israeli attacks that have been taking place since 27 December and which we ha...
Jackson Carlaw (West of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Naturally, the debate has at times been emotionally charged—so it must be when images of raw conflict are broadcast into our homes as it happens. The debate ...
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
The business manager of the Conservative party was quite helpful in allowing us to secure a debate this morning. However, I am sad to say that the speakers f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
Order.
Ted Brocklebank:
Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
I will not.I want to address the points that were made by Ted Brocklebank and Jackson Carlaw, who should perhaps clarify their position.Ted Brocklebank sugge...
The Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture (Linda Fabiani):
SNP
It is absolutely right that the Parliament discusses these issues. Throughout the debate, we have heard the depth of feeling that the developing humanitarian...