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Chamber

Plenary, 04 Dec 2008

04 Dec 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Forced Marriages
Ewing, Fergus SNP Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber Watch on SPTV
There is a difference between the two prospects, but I certainly do not accept that the issue has been in any way deprioritised, nor do I accept that any council of any political hue would wish to deprioritise the issues—the situation is quite the contrary. From my work with Ronnie McColl, Harry McGuigan and Barbara Grant, I know that we have good relationships with all parties in our dealings with senior COSLA spokespeople. It is important that we work in partnership on all these matters.

It is also relevant to point out that we have substantially increased the funding that is committed over the three-year period to tackle the abomination that is violence against women—and men, but primarily women—to £44 million. That is a major contribution, and it is fair to say that it is a very substantial increase.

Many members talked about the difference between forced marriage and arranged marriage, and implied that they are in some way antonyms. The difference is the lack of consent. As Bashir Ahmad, John Lamont and others pointed out, there is consent in an arranged marriage but none in a forced marriage. Bill Aitken said that he could think of no religion that favours forced marriages and it was useful to hear Bashir Ahmad state that Islam has no place for forced marriages. As Johann Lamont did, I applaud people such as Bashir Ahmad and Mohammad Sarwar for making their views known and for providing leadership on such issues to their communities and their constituents.

Many members, including Margaret Smith, Christine Grahame and Johann Lamont, pointed out the difference between UK legislation and current Scots law. I must admit that I pinched myself—I had never heard Christine Grahame say that she stood corrected by Johann Lamont. That reflects the consensual tone of the debate. Johann Lamont was correct to say that the difference is that the position in UK law—the Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Act 2007—is that third parties can apply for orders on behalf of a victim of a forced marriage. Powers of arrest can also be directed against others, not just against the principal perpetrator named in the order. In Scotland, on the other hand, only the victim can apply for an interdict and power of arrest, and those are enforceable only against the person named in the interdict.

I am pleased that we are launching the consultation paper today and I restate the Government's commitment to this agenda. We are clear about the basis for our work—it is correct to consider the broader agenda of violence against women. We will not overlook violence against men, although more work needs to be done. We will consider the influence of alcohol, which is not a cause for violence but an excuse. It exacerbates violence and records show that alcohol is central in a high proportion of reported domestic abuse incidents.

I pay tribute to the 218 project in Glasgow, which I visited earlier this year. It provides a specialist multidisciplinary facility for women aged 18 years and over who are involved in the criminal justice system and may have co-existing addiction issues. That facility plays a great role in assisting victims of domestic violence. I pay particular tribute to all those who do excellent work at the project, which is at 218 Bath Street, Glasgow.

I turn to the consultation paper. Many members asked whether there should be a specific criminal offence relating to forced marriage. I remind members that, as is stated in paragraph 3 of the consultation paper, a previous joint consultation between the UK and the Scottish Government yielded mixed results: 39.4 per cent of Scottish respondents were against the creation of a new offence while 36.4 per cent were in favour. The balance of opinion today suggests that more MSPs are against criminalisation than are for it, although one or two members have argued that the door to criminalisation should not be closed. In the 19 questions that Stewart Maxwell has asked in his consultation paper, the focus is on the civil approach rather than on the criminal approach.

I recently read a crime novel by an Icelandic novelist called Indridason—a novel I thoroughly recommend—on domestic violence. Because of the paucity of my research, I do not have a quote to offer members, but the book says that victims of domestic violence suffer not only because of the violence against them but because they lose their souls. I feel that that offers an interesting perspective on the predicament of many people who face this awful fate, which is meted out to them by others.

I conclude by echoing a phrase that was picked up more than any other by members this evening. Bashir Ahmad expressed a sentiment that I think we all share: one forced marriage in Scotland is one too many.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-3011, in the name of Stewart Maxwell, on forced marriages.
The Minister for Communities and Sport (Stewart Maxwell): SNP
In debating the issues that affect our country, it is not often that we approach a subject with consensus in the chamber. I thank all the parties and their s...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): Lab
Presiding Officer, please use your power to take some time away from my summing-up speech if that will help you to juggle times later on and means that you w...
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): Con
Does the member acknowledge that 38 per cent of the victims in forced marriages are male?
Johann Lamont: Lab
I absolutely accept that forced marriage is an issue that is not simply for women—although, because of defined roles in communities, it affects more women th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
I remind members to ensure that their mobile phones and BlackBerrys are switched off.
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): Con
I apologise to Johann Lamont. The figure of 38 per cent that I cited for male victims was incorrect—the true figure is 15 per cent, which is still highly sig...
Hugh O'Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD): LD
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate and to put forward the Liberal Democrats' thoughts on forced marriage. We welcome the opportunity th...
Stewart Maxwell: SNP
Does Hugh O'Donnell remember that?
Hugh O'Donnell: LD
No, I do not.Huge cultural pressure can be placed on young people. Prior to being elected to the Parliament, I had first-hand experience of that, as I have h...
Bashir Ahmad (Glasgow) (SNP): SNP
I welcome today's debate on an extremely serious and important issue. The term "forced marriages" is used a lot by the media, politicians and community organ...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): Lab
As we know, there is no offence of forced marriage in Scotland. Civil and criminal law in Scotland offers some protection to victims who are forced to marry ...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con): Con
Although forced marriage is thankfully very rare in Britain and in Scotland, it can have a devastating effect on its victims. I therefore welcome the debate,...
Stewart Maxwell: SNP
I acknowledge what the member says; he is quite correct in what he says about the law as it stands. However, does he accept that what he has just explained c...
John Lamont: Con
I agree with the minister entirely. I have set out what Scots law currently allows for. We are trying to prevent forced marriages, rather than deal with them...
Hugh O’Donnell: LD
Will the member confirm that David Cameron initially proposed criminalising—in a non-civil way—forced marriage when the UK bill was introduced in 2006?
John Lamont: Con
I am not aware of that proposal. My understanding is that we as a party supported the bill when it went through the Westminster Parliament. The Scottish Cons...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
At this stage in the debate, it is inevitable that much has already been said. I might occasionally tread where others have been and repeat what they have sa...
Johann Lamont: Lab
As far as I understand it, one of the big differences is that, in other parts of the United Kingdom, a third party can apply for an order. That is particular...
Christine Grahame: SNP
That is a very fair point, which I hope will be developed by the minister. Johann Lamont might have caught me on that point, but that is fine—it is what a de...
Marlyn Glen (North East Scotland) (Lab): Lab
We have heard some details about what forced marriages are, and we recognise the differences between a forced, or coerced, marriage and an arranged marriage ...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): Lab
I appreciate the opportunity to speak.On 25 November, new laws came into force in the rest of the UK to prevent forced marriages and to protect those who hav...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD): LD
This has been an important debate about a sensitive issue. Bashir Ahmad was right to say that one forced marriage is one too many.I thank all those who have ...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): Con
The Conservative group will support the Government motion at decision time.There is contradictory evidence, as we have heard in the debate, about the number ...
Johann Lamont: Lab
It is a reflection on how far we have come that there is consensus that this matter is serious and appropriate for public debate and political action. We hav...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing): SNP
I welcome this afternoon's wide-ranging debate, and the cross-party support and commitment to eradicating forced marriage and other forms of honour-based vio...
Johann Lamont: Lab
Does the minister agree that there is a difference between giving people certainty that something will happen, and expecting people to make it happen? There ...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
There is a difference between the two prospects, but I certainly do not accept that the issue has been in any way deprioritised, nor do I accept that any cou...