Chamber
Plenary, 04 Dec 2008
04 Dec 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Forced Marriages
At this stage in the debate, it is inevitable that much has already been said. I might occasionally tread where others have been and repeat what they have said.
Consent is the essence of any contract and marriage is, of itself, a contract—a very special one. A contract requires the consent of both parties. The parties must have the capacity to consent and consent must be informed and given freely without coercion—physical, emotional, psychological or otherwise. As others have said, a forced marriage is one where consent of one party, or indeed both parties, did not exist. I do not think that anybody has mentioned this yet, but 30 per cent of cases involve minors.
The problem is complex indeed, as was demonstrated by the recent television programme, and cultural influences have a substantial impact on parents in the choice of a marriage partner for their children. The girl or boy who is party to a forced marriage often faces the worst of all dilemmas: by freeing themselves from the forced marriage, whether here or abroad, they are at the same time most likely in danger of alienating themselves from their immediate and extended family, even for life.
We need education, prevention and, in some cases, repatriation, but do we need legislation? I am not persuaded.
As other members have said, the matter of education requires to be handled delicately, because it crosses several generations and cultures. The majority of known forced marriages—there might be many more—concern Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities. It is a matter of educating not just parents but grandparents, aunts and uncles. I am pleased that the Asian community is taking the lead on the matter, which is very welcome.
Prevention could flow from the education process in the widest sense, but prevention can, and sometimes must, require determination, and it can even be dramatic. In cases where the young girl or boy does not turn up for school, the teachers and the headteacher should not presume that they have moved elsewhere, even if their carers or parents avow that that is the case. Discreet inquiries must be made.
In the same television programme that I mentioned, one girl described how she had been kept prisoner in her own room, hoping that someone would come knocking on the door of the family home to rescue her. None came. I believe that her school had been told that she had gone on holiday to Pakistan. It was, of course, no holiday. Not only was she marrying someone for whom she had no affection and who beat her; she had moved from English suburbia to a remote mountain village with very basic facilities, surrounded by her husband's kinsfolk while hers were back in England. That was a terrifying and isolating experience.
Repatriation is not an easy matter. A girl or boy might risk everything, sometimes even their lives, to free themselves from what is a slavish existence. There are safe havens, both abroad and here, but taking that step is a sign of not just courage but desperation on the part of the few who do so. I applaud those who assist them on that path.
I turn to the issue of legislation. To criminalise forced marriages per se is bad—it would be counterproductive. Much has been said about that already. However, criminal acts could take place in a forced marriage. Kidnapping prior to the marriage is a criminal act, and so is rape. It is not that there are no criminal acts that might take place, but the criminal law should not apply to the service itself.
I note the English legislation, the Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Act 2007, to which John Lamont referred. However, it is pre-emptive, so I cannot see how it is much better than our law under the Protection from Abuse (Scotland) Act 2001. That act, which came from a committee bill, allows for interdict and interdict ad interim, and a power of arrest is attached. Much of what has been done in the 2007 English legislation is encased in the Scottish 2001 act. I am pleased that the Minister for Community Safety, with his legal background, will be responding to the debate, because I have some further questions.
Consent is the essence of any contract and marriage is, of itself, a contract—a very special one. A contract requires the consent of both parties. The parties must have the capacity to consent and consent must be informed and given freely without coercion—physical, emotional, psychological or otherwise. As others have said, a forced marriage is one where consent of one party, or indeed both parties, did not exist. I do not think that anybody has mentioned this yet, but 30 per cent of cases involve minors.
The problem is complex indeed, as was demonstrated by the recent television programme, and cultural influences have a substantial impact on parents in the choice of a marriage partner for their children. The girl or boy who is party to a forced marriage often faces the worst of all dilemmas: by freeing themselves from the forced marriage, whether here or abroad, they are at the same time most likely in danger of alienating themselves from their immediate and extended family, even for life.
We need education, prevention and, in some cases, repatriation, but do we need legislation? I am not persuaded.
As other members have said, the matter of education requires to be handled delicately, because it crosses several generations and cultures. The majority of known forced marriages—there might be many more—concern Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities. It is a matter of educating not just parents but grandparents, aunts and uncles. I am pleased that the Asian community is taking the lead on the matter, which is very welcome.
Prevention could flow from the education process in the widest sense, but prevention can, and sometimes must, require determination, and it can even be dramatic. In cases where the young girl or boy does not turn up for school, the teachers and the headteacher should not presume that they have moved elsewhere, even if their carers or parents avow that that is the case. Discreet inquiries must be made.
In the same television programme that I mentioned, one girl described how she had been kept prisoner in her own room, hoping that someone would come knocking on the door of the family home to rescue her. None came. I believe that her school had been told that she had gone on holiday to Pakistan. It was, of course, no holiday. Not only was she marrying someone for whom she had no affection and who beat her; she had moved from English suburbia to a remote mountain village with very basic facilities, surrounded by her husband's kinsfolk while hers were back in England. That was a terrifying and isolating experience.
Repatriation is not an easy matter. A girl or boy might risk everything, sometimes even their lives, to free themselves from what is a slavish existence. There are safe havens, both abroad and here, but taking that step is a sign of not just courage but desperation on the part of the few who do so. I applaud those who assist them on that path.
I turn to the issue of legislation. To criminalise forced marriages per se is bad—it would be counterproductive. Much has been said about that already. However, criminal acts could take place in a forced marriage. Kidnapping prior to the marriage is a criminal act, and so is rape. It is not that there are no criminal acts that might take place, but the criminal law should not apply to the service itself.
I note the English legislation, the Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Act 2007, to which John Lamont referred. However, it is pre-emptive, so I cannot see how it is much better than our law under the Protection from Abuse (Scotland) Act 2001. That act, which came from a committee bill, allows for interdict and interdict ad interim, and a power of arrest is attached. Much of what has been done in the 2007 English legislation is encased in the Scottish 2001 act. I am pleased that the Minister for Community Safety, with his legal background, will be responding to the debate, because I have some further questions.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-3011, in the name of Stewart Maxwell, on forced marriages.
The Minister for Communities and Sport (Stewart Maxwell):
SNP
In debating the issues that affect our country, it is not often that we approach a subject with consensus in the chamber. I thank all the parties and their s...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab):
Lab
Presiding Officer, please use your power to take some time away from my summing-up speech if that will help you to juggle times later on and means that you w...
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
Does the member acknowledge that 38 per cent of the victims in forced marriages are male?
Johann Lamont:
Lab
I absolutely accept that forced marriage is an issue that is not simply for women—although, because of defined roles in communities, it affects more women th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
I remind members to ensure that their mobile phones and BlackBerrys are switched off.
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I apologise to Johann Lamont. The figure of 38 per cent that I cited for male victims was incorrect—the true figure is 15 per cent, which is still highly sig...
Hugh O'Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate and to put forward the Liberal Democrats' thoughts on forced marriage. We welcome the opportunity th...
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
Does Hugh O'Donnell remember that?
Hugh O'Donnell:
LD
No, I do not.Huge cultural pressure can be placed on young people. Prior to being elected to the Parliament, I had first-hand experience of that, as I have h...
Bashir Ahmad (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome today's debate on an extremely serious and important issue. The term "forced marriages" is used a lot by the media, politicians and community organ...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab):
Lab
As we know, there is no offence of forced marriage in Scotland. Civil and criminal law in Scotland offers some protection to victims who are forced to marry ...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
Although forced marriage is thankfully very rare in Britain and in Scotland, it can have a devastating effect on its victims. I therefore welcome the debate,...
Stewart Maxwell:
SNP
I acknowledge what the member says; he is quite correct in what he says about the law as it stands. However, does he accept that what he has just explained c...
John Lamont:
Con
I agree with the minister entirely. I have set out what Scots law currently allows for. We are trying to prevent forced marriages, rather than deal with them...
Hugh O’Donnell:
LD
Will the member confirm that David Cameron initially proposed criminalising—in a non-civil way—forced marriage when the UK bill was introduced in 2006?
John Lamont:
Con
I am not aware of that proposal. My understanding is that we as a party supported the bill when it went through the Westminster Parliament. The Scottish Cons...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
At this stage in the debate, it is inevitable that much has already been said. I might occasionally tread where others have been and repeat what they have sa...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
As far as I understand it, one of the big differences is that, in other parts of the United Kingdom, a third party can apply for an order. That is particular...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
That is a very fair point, which I hope will be developed by the minister. Johann Lamont might have caught me on that point, but that is fine—it is what a de...
Marlyn Glen (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
We have heard some details about what forced marriages are, and we recognise the differences between a forced, or coerced, marriage and an arranged marriage ...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab):
Lab
I appreciate the opportunity to speak.On 25 November, new laws came into force in the rest of the UK to prevent forced marriages and to protect those who hav...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
This has been an important debate about a sensitive issue. Bashir Ahmad was right to say that one forced marriage is one too many.I thank all those who have ...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
The Conservative group will support the Government motion at decision time.There is contradictory evidence, as we have heard in the debate, about the number ...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
It is a reflection on how far we have come that there is consensus that this matter is serious and appropriate for public debate and political action. We hav...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing):
SNP
I welcome this afternoon's wide-ranging debate, and the cross-party support and commitment to eradicating forced marriage and other forms of honour-based vio...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
Does the minister agree that there is a difference between giving people certainty that something will happen, and expecting people to make it happen? There ...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
There is a difference between the two prospects, but I certainly do not accept that the issue has been in any way deprioritised, nor do I accept that any cou...