Chamber
Plenary, 09 Oct 2008
09 Oct 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Elections 2007
I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate and I commend the committee for its work in producing its comprehensive report.
There is no doubt that all members of the Parliament and members of councils throughout Scotland are honoured, because we owe our position to voters who turned up at polling stations, cast their votes and expressed confidence in us and our political parties. That is a unique and honourable position to be in. Therefore, we must ensure that we involve as many voters as possible in the process and that voters can have confidence in the integrity of the process. I commend the committee's work to try to make the process more robust in future and to increase voter turnout.
Members have referred to the important issues that the committee highlighted in its report. I have given considerable thought to the decoupling of local government and parliamentary elections. Michael McMahon and other members pointed out that decoupling the elections might reduce voter turnout at council elections, which would reduce the mandate that councils have. That is a strong point, but on balance I favour decoupling. I watched voters enter polling stations in 2007 and spoke to a number of voters from different political parties afterwards, and I am in no doubt that there was a good deal of confusion among people who had had to vote for a constituency MSP and a list MSP, and then for three or four councillors in a system that was being used for the first time. A confusing system puts voters off and we do not want to do that; we want as many people as possible to vote in elections.
For that reason, I support proposals to simplify ballot papers. The use of two separate ballot papers would be more straightforward and would be an easier system for voters to follow. Voter education is also important. We are talking about serious elections, in which members are elected to legislate on important issues in the Scottish Parliament and councillors are elected to manage large budgets. If we want voters to be aware of issues and to understand how to vote, we must invest seriously in voter education. The number of rejected ballot papers in 2007 is a matter of regret. In my constituency, there were 1,495 rejected ballot papers in the constituency election alone. I support moves to publish more electoral data, which I think will show that we have much to do in areas of social deprivation, where I think that turnout is lower and more ballot papers are rejected. We must address that issue.
Alison McInnes glossed over some facts about STV. She mentioned the increased number of candidates but did not talk about the three-fold increase in wards. The alphabetical bias in the STV system must be addressed before the next elections.
David Whitton talked about problems with postal votes. In my constituency some people did not receive their postal ballot papers until the day of the election or afterwards, so they were debarred from taking part in the process.
I support the restoration of manual counts for the Scottish Parliament elections. Transparency is important. The experienced election watchers among us are used to seeing the ballot boxes being opened and—this is my experience—all the Labour votes spilling on to the table. I make a serious point. Manual counts enable people to see how the votes are stacking up as the process goes on, which did not happen during the e-count, when my sight was blurring as I tried to follow what was happening on bar charts. I also support overnight counting. I am a traditionalist in that respect. People who work hard all day during an election are entitled to learn some results by 10 o'clock and the public and the media expect to hear the results as soon as possible.
I commend the committee for its report. I support Duncan McNeil's call for voters to be central to the process. The committee's recommendations would do much to ensure greater voter turnout in future elections.
There is no doubt that all members of the Parliament and members of councils throughout Scotland are honoured, because we owe our position to voters who turned up at polling stations, cast their votes and expressed confidence in us and our political parties. That is a unique and honourable position to be in. Therefore, we must ensure that we involve as many voters as possible in the process and that voters can have confidence in the integrity of the process. I commend the committee's work to try to make the process more robust in future and to increase voter turnout.
Members have referred to the important issues that the committee highlighted in its report. I have given considerable thought to the decoupling of local government and parliamentary elections. Michael McMahon and other members pointed out that decoupling the elections might reduce voter turnout at council elections, which would reduce the mandate that councils have. That is a strong point, but on balance I favour decoupling. I watched voters enter polling stations in 2007 and spoke to a number of voters from different political parties afterwards, and I am in no doubt that there was a good deal of confusion among people who had had to vote for a constituency MSP and a list MSP, and then for three or four councillors in a system that was being used for the first time. A confusing system puts voters off and we do not want to do that; we want as many people as possible to vote in elections.
For that reason, I support proposals to simplify ballot papers. The use of two separate ballot papers would be more straightforward and would be an easier system for voters to follow. Voter education is also important. We are talking about serious elections, in which members are elected to legislate on important issues in the Scottish Parliament and councillors are elected to manage large budgets. If we want voters to be aware of issues and to understand how to vote, we must invest seriously in voter education. The number of rejected ballot papers in 2007 is a matter of regret. In my constituency, there were 1,495 rejected ballot papers in the constituency election alone. I support moves to publish more electoral data, which I think will show that we have much to do in areas of social deprivation, where I think that turnout is lower and more ballot papers are rejected. We must address that issue.
Alison McInnes glossed over some facts about STV. She mentioned the increased number of candidates but did not talk about the three-fold increase in wards. The alphabetical bias in the STV system must be addressed before the next elections.
David Whitton talked about problems with postal votes. In my constituency some people did not receive their postal ballot papers until the day of the election or afterwards, so they were debarred from taking part in the process.
I support the restoration of manual counts for the Scottish Parliament elections. Transparency is important. The experienced election watchers among us are used to seeing the ballot boxes being opened and—this is my experience—all the Labour votes spilling on to the table. I make a serious point. Manual counts enable people to see how the votes are stacking up as the process goes on, which did not happen during the e-count, when my sight was blurring as I tried to follow what was happening on bar charts. I also support overnight counting. I am a traditionalist in that respect. People who work hard all day during an election are entitled to learn some results by 10 o'clock and the public and the media expect to hear the results as soon as possible.
I commend the committee for its report. I support Duncan McNeil's call for voters to be central to the process. The committee's recommendations would do much to ensure greater voter turnout in future elections.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business this morning is a debate on motion S3M-2667, in the name of Duncan McNeil, on behalf of the Local Government and Com...
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):
Lab
Let me start by thanking the committee members, the clerks, the officers and the Scottish Parliament information centre for all their hard work and patience ...
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Bruce Crawford):
SNP
I wrote to the convener of the committee on 1 August to respond formally to the committee's report. I said that I was grateful for the committee's detailed c...
David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab):
Lab
We are here to consider the report into the circumstances surrounding the elections for the Scottish Parliament and Scottish local authorities that the Parli...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con):
Con
Much rhetorical hot air has been expended on the debacle of the elections to the Scottish Parliament and Scotland's councils on 3 May last year when, as we k...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD):
LD
It has been said that, in a democracy, the most important office is that of citizen. Sadly, it is clear from the analysis of last year's electoral process th...
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
I have read carefully what was said by the Electoral Commission, which has made a useful contribution to the debate. However, I find it difficult to understa...
Alison McInnes:
LD
As I said, the suggestion is worthy of further consideration. Before we come to conclusions, we should explore it further. We need something that refines the...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We come to speeches in the open debate. Members have a tight 6 minutes.
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
In looking at the Gould report and considering its recommendations and their impact on the local government elections, it became apparent to members of the L...
Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab):
Lab
Mr Gould also said to the committee:"We do not need to bring responsibility for all elections to the Scottish Parliament in order to get clarity."—Official R...
Bob Doris:
SNP
He said that, but he also said that responsibility should go to the Scottish Parliament because that would be the logical choice.I had hoped that today's deb...
Duncan McNeil:
Lab
Does the member think that it was remiss of the committee—albeit that I suggested it—that we did not seek to broaden the remit of our inquiry to look at Scot...
Bob Doris:
SNP
The committee convener makes a good point, but if legislative responsibility were to be brought to this chamber that would happen quite naturally.Yesterday, ...
Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab):
Lab
We should welcome the fact that the Local Government and Communities Committee's report on the 2007 election has once more given us the chance to debate an i...
Bob Doris:
SNP
Would it not have been advisable and courteous for the Secretary of State for Scotland to await the outcome of today's debate first?
Michael McMahon:
Lab
I do not think that that would have mattered, given that he was restating a 10-year-old policy that the Government has no intention of changing. I could have...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Every member who stood for election last year has their own experiences of the May 2007 Scottish Parliament and local government elections; David Whitton des...
James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate and I commend the committee for its work in producing its comprehensive report.There is no doubt that al...
Nicol Stephen (Aberdeen South) (LD):
LD
The May 2007 election debacle was a dark day for democracy in Scotland. More than 85,000 votes were rejected in the constituency ballots and more than 60,000...
Andy Kerr:
Lab
For clarity, will the member remind the Parliament of his party's position on the ballot paper and on decoupling the elections?
Nicol Stephen:
LD
I will come on to those points. I do not believe that we should tinker with the system; fundamental change is needed.The debacle in May 2007 was a serious fa...
Gavin Brown (Lothians) (Con):
Con
Does the member regret the trebling in the failure of voting at council level in 2007, as compared with 2003 and 1999?
Nicol Stephen:
LD
I regret any spoiled ballot. However, it is important to emphasise that the dramatic shift was in the failure of voting under the Scottish Parliament voting ...
Jamie Hepburn (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Today's debate is welcome, although much of the ground covered in the Local Government and Communities Committee's report is not exactly new. Scotland's expe...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
The opening speakers all emphasised the importance of putting voters first when designing electoral systems. That is important, and it is the right thing to ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
Order. The member must withdraw that remark.
Des McNulty:
Lab
I withdraw that remark. There is an issue around voter fatigue. Not next year, but in future we will end up with voters being asked to vote every year, wheth...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green):
Green
How infuriating that Des McNulty ended that speech with something—fixed terms—that I agree with him on.I thank the Local Government and Communities Committee...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I, too, thank the Local Government and Communities Committee for its report on what I would call the chaotic 2007 elections; I also thank all who gave eviden...