Chamber
Plenary, 26 Jun 2008
26 Jun 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Flooding and Flood Management
One of the most important points in our report is the recommendation that SEPA should take the lead at a national level in overseeing the flood risk plans that are prepared by our local authorities. Indeed, the minister has just confirmed this morning that that is, indeed, the Government's intention. Therefore, I will concentrate my remarks on the reasons why I believe that not enough evidence was taken by the committee to test whether SEPA is sufficiently independent of Government to take on that role.
Representatives of SEPA came to our committee and made the point, in their written submission, that
"Controlling development through planning is perhaps the most powerful tool available to manage flood risks."
I could not agree more with that, which is why I challenged SEPA on whether it had robust processes, independent of Government, to control, for example, the building of houses on the flood plain.
At our meeting on 5 March, I tried to ask questions about the Aviemore application, as it was the most recent example of a developer wanting to build houses on the flood plain, but the committee convener prevented me from asking those questions. The convener used the argument, which in my view was spurious, that another committee was examining the issue. We were all aware that that was not the case. She changed her reasons for disallowing questions on the subject several times over the following weeks.
What had actually happened was that the Local Government and Communities Committee had mentioned in paragraph 268 of its report on the Trump application:
"The Committee is concerned by the implications of Ministerial intervention in the Aviemore case. FOI evidence reveals that intervention by 5 Scottish Ministers",
including the Minister for Environment, Mike Russell,
"pre-dates any request for action by a cross-party group of MSPs."
Therefore, no other committee was examining the issue. It was the Rural Affairs and Environment Committee's duty to pursue the issue as it was central to our committee inquiry. Four out of eight committee members wished to recall SEPA to the committee before the minister came before us to give us his evidence, but the convener refused our repeated requests even to put the issue on the agenda for discussion, such was her determination to protect Scottish National Party ministers. In my view, she failed miserably in her duties.
I have never in nine years of service on parliamentary committees come across such a blatant misuse of power and authority by a committee convener and, frankly, it has undermined the authority of our report. It is surely a committee convener's duty to accede to requests if even one member of the committee asks to put something on the agenda for debate. The convener decided to use her authority to silence other members of the committee to protect her political colleague, Mr Russell. That sort of behaviour will not wash.
Representatives of SEPA came to our committee and made the point, in their written submission, that
"Controlling development through planning is perhaps the most powerful tool available to manage flood risks."
I could not agree more with that, which is why I challenged SEPA on whether it had robust processes, independent of Government, to control, for example, the building of houses on the flood plain.
At our meeting on 5 March, I tried to ask questions about the Aviemore application, as it was the most recent example of a developer wanting to build houses on the flood plain, but the committee convener prevented me from asking those questions. The convener used the argument, which in my view was spurious, that another committee was examining the issue. We were all aware that that was not the case. She changed her reasons for disallowing questions on the subject several times over the following weeks.
What had actually happened was that the Local Government and Communities Committee had mentioned in paragraph 268 of its report on the Trump application:
"The Committee is concerned by the implications of Ministerial intervention in the Aviemore case. FOI evidence reveals that intervention by 5 Scottish Ministers",
including the Minister for Environment, Mike Russell,
"pre-dates any request for action by a cross-party group of MSPs."
Therefore, no other committee was examining the issue. It was the Rural Affairs and Environment Committee's duty to pursue the issue as it was central to our committee inquiry. Four out of eight committee members wished to recall SEPA to the committee before the minister came before us to give us his evidence, but the convener refused our repeated requests even to put the issue on the agenda for discussion, such was her determination to protect Scottish National Party ministers. In my view, she failed miserably in her duties.
I have never in nine years of service on parliamentary committees come across such a blatant misuse of power and authority by a committee convener and, frankly, it has undermined the authority of our report. It is surely a committee convener's duty to accede to requests if even one member of the committee asks to put something on the agenda for debate. The convener decided to use her authority to silence other members of the committee to protect her political colleague, Mr Russell. That sort of behaviour will not wash.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-2208, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on the Rural Affairs and Environment Committee's report on floo...
Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP):
SNP
We all remember the images from England last year when very serious flooding took place in the middle of the summer. The devastation and distress were only t...
That the Parliament notes the conclusions and recommendations contained in the Rural Affairs and Environment Committee’s 2nd Report, 2008 (Session 3):
Flooding and Flood Management (SP Paper 96).
The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead):
SNP
I warmly commend the committee for its thorough investigation and report, which are certainly helping to ensure that flooding remains firmly on the Parliamen...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I ask members who are speaking and those who are sitting close to them to ensure that their telephones and BlackBerrys are turned off. Quite a lot of interfe...
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):
Lab
We very much welcome the Rural Affairs and Environment Committee's report, which is timely given that the Pitt report, which contains recommendations arising...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
The Rural Affairs and Environment Committee is to be congratulated on a thorough and timely piece of work, which coincides with the Government's consultation...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
One of the most important points in our report is the recommendation that SEPA should take the lead at a national level in overseeing the flood risk plans th...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
Does Mr Rumbles not accept that there is more than one way to skin a cat? I was able to ask all the questions that I required to ask—and the committee makes ...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Yes, but is it not unfortunate that we had to go round in circles and were prevented from using the word "Aviemore"? Let us be clear: the First Minister made...
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. The issue of flooding is a very serious subject for debate. If Mr Rumbles is addressing not the issue of flooding but...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
I am listening very carefully—
Mike Rumbles:
LD
I—
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
I am speaking, Mr Rumbles. I am listening carefully to what you have to say. I ask you to remember what the subject is and to be very careful from now on.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
The subject is clear. It is about managing flooding and preventing the building of houses on the flood plain. This is a prime example of that.The First Minis...
Roseanna Cunningham:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles:
LD
No. Another SEPA e-mail referred to"Interference in due process … if signed off, it will no doubt affect staff morale".
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
You have one minute.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
All those interventions have taken time from me, Presiding Officer, but never mind.After all that, Mike Russell, the planning minister, came before our commi...
Michael Russell:
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am not the planning minister, so I hope that Mr Rumbles is not misleading the chamber. Perhaps that point could be ...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
The convener was so concerned about protecting the minister that prior to the meeting she informed us all that she would not even allow any mention of the Av...
Jamie Hepburn (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
By now, observant members will have noticed that motions have been laid before the Parliament that would mean changes to the membership of various committees...
Peter Peacock (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
Like other members, I think that the committee conducted a good inquiry. It is worth acknowledging the fact that, with one exception, which Mike Rumbles ment...
Bill Wilson (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Having quickly rewritten the start of my speech, I now begin by congratulating Roseanna Cunningham on her chairing of the committee. Events in the chamber ha...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
Is it Bill Wilson's understanding that the SNP Government will not go ahead with any PFI or public-private partnership projects in the future?
Bill Wilson:
SNP
My understanding is that we are moving towards an alternative, non-profit-sharing method, which will phase out PFI. Where contracts have already been signed,...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I echo the mostly positive comments of previous speakers. I thank the Rural Affairs and Environment Committee and its clerks for all their work in preparing ...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I am not a Rural Affairs and Environment Committee member, or even a substitute member, so I do not have the depth of knowledge that committee members have. ...
Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD):
LD
There must be something symbolic in the fact that, when Mary Scanlon and I choose to speak in a debate in which we have only a general interest, the heavens ...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
The flooding that affected the Highlands and Islands about 18 months ago and the Western Isles a year earlier sharpened much of the debate in the Parliament ...