Chamber
Plenary, 23 Apr 2008
23 Apr 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Historic Scotland and Local Authorities
I very much welcome this opportunity to explore the co-operation between Historic Scotland and local authorities, which the minister has enhanced today with the announcement about how such co-operation will proceed. The joint working agreements and pilot scheme that Iain Smith mentioned are a great step forward, with delegated powers being given to local authorities. They underline the message that we are all responsible for our landscape, and that we ought to be able to understand it and have the backing of the statutory authorities to ensure that it is looked after.
Landscapes and townscapes vary greatly throughout the country. In the past 30 years alone, we have found out about 60 per cent more information about prehistory thanks to the Ordnance Survey's better methods. As a result, a vast backlog of interpretation has to be undertaken. Will the minister help us in that regard by ensuring that the booklets that explain Scottish historic environment policy include one on interpretation? We have to examine how Historic Scotland and other bodies work together to bring out the stories in which particular buildings and monuments play a part.
There is little interpretation of sites that people do not pay to enter. As a result, the whole history can be missed. I am interested in the interpretation of such sites—it would be easy to do. I represent Orkney, where the world heritage site is an excellent example of co-ordination between Historic Scotland and the local authority.
Scattered throughout Scotland are properties and places associated with particular episodes in Scottish history, such as the Jacobites, the development of the Christian church, the wars of independence and the clearances. Historic Scotland and the NTS have a responsibility to present to the public how a particular building or site relates to the development of our nation's story. Interpretation will follow and prosper if there is greater involvement between Historic Scotland, the local authorities and our communities.
We all agree that community planning should be much more involved with the historic landscape. Local people are often the best guardians of sites and information that could be better interpreted if they got backing. I look forward to the minister's response to that point.
I am delighted to note the extra money for the conservation area regeneration scheme. Perhaps it will be spent on some of the incomplete exercises of the past five years and on new exercises that have not yet begun. For example, a lot of work is going on in Wick. In conservation areas such as Argyle Square in Pulteneytown, for which Thomas Telford created the plans and in which people then built their houses, Historic Scotland imposes strong restrictions on what people's windows can look like. Although there is cash to support window replacement, Historic Scotland sometimes goes over the top in trying to recreate the 18th and 19th centuries. The other half of Argyle Square has been altered by the addition of a glass panel in the area outside the church, and at the other end of the square a very unsightly shop takes up a corner site. If we are going to do the job properly, there must be investment in the whole of Argyle Square. Many of the residents would like to see proposals that are part of a wider plan from Historic Scotland, rather than receive rather curt treatment when seeking to replace their windows.
I am delighted that we have the support of HEACS in ensuring that every public body has a duty of care and that concordats—a useful word with an historical resonance—will be developed. I am also delighted that the issues will be debated, because such debates allow people to feel involved. I very much welcome the minister's commitment to the approach and I hope to see its fruits in due course.
Landscapes and townscapes vary greatly throughout the country. In the past 30 years alone, we have found out about 60 per cent more information about prehistory thanks to the Ordnance Survey's better methods. As a result, a vast backlog of interpretation has to be undertaken. Will the minister help us in that regard by ensuring that the booklets that explain Scottish historic environment policy include one on interpretation? We have to examine how Historic Scotland and other bodies work together to bring out the stories in which particular buildings and monuments play a part.
There is little interpretation of sites that people do not pay to enter. As a result, the whole history can be missed. I am interested in the interpretation of such sites—it would be easy to do. I represent Orkney, where the world heritage site is an excellent example of co-ordination between Historic Scotland and the local authority.
Scattered throughout Scotland are properties and places associated with particular episodes in Scottish history, such as the Jacobites, the development of the Christian church, the wars of independence and the clearances. Historic Scotland and the NTS have a responsibility to present to the public how a particular building or site relates to the development of our nation's story. Interpretation will follow and prosper if there is greater involvement between Historic Scotland, the local authorities and our communities.
We all agree that community planning should be much more involved with the historic landscape. Local people are often the best guardians of sites and information that could be better interpreted if they got backing. I look forward to the minister's response to that point.
I am delighted to note the extra money for the conservation area regeneration scheme. Perhaps it will be spent on some of the incomplete exercises of the past five years and on new exercises that have not yet begun. For example, a lot of work is going on in Wick. In conservation areas such as Argyle Square in Pulteneytown, for which Thomas Telford created the plans and in which people then built their houses, Historic Scotland imposes strong restrictions on what people's windows can look like. Although there is cash to support window replacement, Historic Scotland sometimes goes over the top in trying to recreate the 18th and 19th centuries. The other half of Argyle Square has been altered by the addition of a glass panel in the area outside the church, and at the other end of the square a very unsightly shop takes up a corner site. If we are going to do the job properly, there must be investment in the whole of Argyle Square. Many of the residents would like to see proposals that are part of a wider plan from Historic Scotland, rather than receive rather curt treatment when seeking to replace their windows.
I am delighted that we have the support of HEACS in ensuring that every public body has a duty of care and that concordats—a useful word with an historical resonance—will be developed. I am also delighted that the issues will be debated, because such debates allow people to feel involved. I very much welcome the minister's commitment to the approach and I hope to see its fruits in due course.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on S3M-1751, in the name of Linda Fabiani, on Historic Scotland and local authorities.
The Minister for Europe, External Affairs and Culture (Linda Fabiani):
SNP
I am pleased to open the debate, which allows me to highlight the many ways in which central and local government are working together to deliver a sustainab...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the announcement of the £8 million to continue the work of the conservation area regeneration scheme, and the key performance targets for planning ...
Ted Brocklebank (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I am a fan of Historic Scotland, although there are aspects of its operation with which I disagree, to which I will return. I continue to believe that the ag...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):
LD
I welcome this rare opportunity to focus on the role of Historic Scotland. At one point, I was concerned about whether there would be a ministerial statement...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
We move to the debate. Speeches should be of six minutes.
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I very much welcome this opportunity to explore the co-operation between Historic Scotland and local authorities, which the minister has enhanced today with ...
James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome this debate on Historic Scotland and its joint working with local authorities, because we should discuss its role in administering Scotland's histo...
John Farquhar Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD):
LD
I am pleased to take part in a debate during which we have heard about numerous anomalies and difficulties relating to the work of our colleagues in Historic...
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
You alluded to Eilean Donan castle as having been a pile of rocks, but I remind you that it was under your party's Administration that Castle Tioram remained...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
That did not happen under my party's Administration.
John Farquhar Munro:
LD
I do not think that the issue was ever debated seriously in the Scottish Parliament, because it was simply a planning matter between Highland Council and His...
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
I thank John Farquhar Munro for reminding us that one of Scotland's iconic structures dates from only about 70 years ago, thus depriving us of any historical...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
There is no doubt that the conservation and reuse of buildings must rank highly in terms of sustainability. Ensuring that restoration is sympathetic is a cru...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP):
SNP
I start with a declaration of interest. Like many in the chamber, as a member of a local authority I have been involved in planning issues for a number of ye...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab):
Lab
I declare an interest as a member of Historic Scotland.As others have said, our distinctive environment has been formed by centuries of activity by nature an...
Liam McArthur (Orkney) (LD):
LD
Like Patricia Ferguson and Willie Coffey, I declare an interest as a member of Historic Scotland. As a result of that membership, I have sons who have a heal...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
The member has one minute left.
Liam McArthur:
LD
In my constituency I know of situations in which there has been a complete failure to communicate properly or to engage with local stakeholders. Although I f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
The member must conclude now.
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I am pleased to speak in the debate, which has been very informative. In 2004, during a similar debate, I made a speech that was partially critical of Histor...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
I am happy to support Iain Smith's amendment, with its emphasis on effective engagement with local communities in relation to listed buildings. More generall...
Linda Fabiani:
SNP
The most sensible thing that I have heard Malcolm Chisholm say today is that I will not have enough time. He is right: in the eight minutes that are availabl...