Chamber
Plenary, 27 Mar 2008
27 Mar 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Fatal Accident Inquiries
The short answer is that we cannot act until we have the flexibility provided by changes to the Scotland Act 1998. We are a creature of that statute and are constrained by its provisions. Members might have reservations about changing that legislation but, as I know from a civil context, we need to address practical issues such as how the Crown Office interacts with Government institutions elsewhere.
For some time, we have been pursuing a solution to the problem of how investigations and inquiries into the deaths on active service overseas of Scotland-based personnel can be dealt with, such that we can remove the additional distress that having to travel south of the border for inquest hearings causes bereaved families. The issue has been under consideration with the UK Government since last year, and I have written to the Secretary of State for Defence, Des Browne, this week to emphasise the urgency that we attach to it and to reiterate our desire to find a solution. That letter was copied to the Lord Chancellor Jack Straw and other Whitehall ministers with an interest in the issue.
As I have said, the chief complication is that the issue of inquiries into military deaths is reserved. The existing Scottish legislation only allows the holding of fatal accident inquiries into deaths that take place within Scotland or on the continental shelf. The existing legislation on coroners permits inquests to be held only within England. Inquests into the deaths of Scotland-based service personnel are triggered because bodies are repatriated by the Ministry of Defence to Royal Air Force airfields in the south of England for operational reasons, and there is no legislative basis for transferring responsibility for investigations to Scotland.
Therefore, there are difficult legal and policy issues that have to be resolved and which will take time to work through. The necessary legislative steps would require to be taken both at Westminster and in the Scottish Parliament, but only after a section 30 order under the Scotland Act 1998 had been made to permit this Parliament to deal with a matter that is currently reserved. Without a section 30 order, we cannot do so.
We have consistently argued for the section 30 route to be followed to address the issue, and the lack of progress at the Whitehall end is the subject of the letter that I sent to the Secretary of State for Defence. Members might have seen Des Browne's reply to my letter, in which he raises two issues. First, FAIs cannot be held into deaths that occur outside Scotland. However, as I have said, there is no appetite to investigate all Scottish deaths abroad—military deaths are the only cause of concern, but the Scottish Parliament cannot legislate for those alone because that would cut across the defence reservation. That is why we need a section 30 order and why the Scottish Parliament cannot legislate on the matter by itself.
The second issue relates to the fact that inquests into military deaths abroad are mandatory. The Ministry of Justice is concerned that if inquiries into the deaths of Scotland-based service personnel were held in Scotland, they would not be mandatory. Des Browne says that he cannot contemplate changes until there is a commitment to mandatory investigations. The issue of whether inquiries should be mandatory or discretionary can be discussed further with Whitehall ministers and if a section 30 order is made, it will be for the Scottish Parliament to decide whether such inquiries are to be mandatory or discretionary.
For some time, we have been pursuing a solution to the problem of how investigations and inquiries into the deaths on active service overseas of Scotland-based personnel can be dealt with, such that we can remove the additional distress that having to travel south of the border for inquest hearings causes bereaved families. The issue has been under consideration with the UK Government since last year, and I have written to the Secretary of State for Defence, Des Browne, this week to emphasise the urgency that we attach to it and to reiterate our desire to find a solution. That letter was copied to the Lord Chancellor Jack Straw and other Whitehall ministers with an interest in the issue.
As I have said, the chief complication is that the issue of inquiries into military deaths is reserved. The existing Scottish legislation only allows the holding of fatal accident inquiries into deaths that take place within Scotland or on the continental shelf. The existing legislation on coroners permits inquests to be held only within England. Inquests into the deaths of Scotland-based service personnel are triggered because bodies are repatriated by the Ministry of Defence to Royal Air Force airfields in the south of England for operational reasons, and there is no legislative basis for transferring responsibility for investigations to Scotland.
Therefore, there are difficult legal and policy issues that have to be resolved and which will take time to work through. The necessary legislative steps would require to be taken both at Westminster and in the Scottish Parliament, but only after a section 30 order under the Scotland Act 1998 had been made to permit this Parliament to deal with a matter that is currently reserved. Without a section 30 order, we cannot do so.
We have consistently argued for the section 30 route to be followed to address the issue, and the lack of progress at the Whitehall end is the subject of the letter that I sent to the Secretary of State for Defence. Members might have seen Des Browne's reply to my letter, in which he raises two issues. First, FAIs cannot be held into deaths that occur outside Scotland. However, as I have said, there is no appetite to investigate all Scottish deaths abroad—military deaths are the only cause of concern, but the Scottish Parliament cannot legislate for those alone because that would cut across the defence reservation. That is why we need a section 30 order and why the Scottish Parliament cannot legislate on the matter by itself.
The second issue relates to the fact that inquests into military deaths abroad are mandatory. The Ministry of Justice is concerned that if inquiries into the deaths of Scotland-based service personnel were held in Scotland, they would not be mandatory. Des Browne says that he cannot contemplate changes until there is a commitment to mandatory investigations. The issue of whether inquiries should be mandatory or discretionary can be discussed further with Whitehall ministers and if a section 30 order is made, it will be for the Scottish Parliament to decide whether such inquiries are to be mandatory or discretionary.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on S3M-1638, in the name of Frank Mulholland, on fatal accident inquiries. Members might wish to note that a revised se...
The Solicitor General for Scotland (Frank Mulholland):
I welcome the opportunity to open today's debate. On 7 March, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice announced that he and the Lord Advocate had agreed that there...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
The Solicitor General for Scotland is opening the debate on the Government's behalf, so will he answer my question on the Government's behalf? What is the Go...
The Solicitor General for Scotland:
I thank the member for his question, which raises an important point. The matter is reserved, because defence is reserved, so it needs to be considered and w...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the debate and Lord Cullen's forthcoming review, which will be the first proper review of the legislation on fatal accident inquiries in more than ...
Keith Brown (Ochil) (SNP):
SNP
I seek clarification. Margaret Smith has mentioned Scottish soldiers a couple of times, and her amendment mentions both"personnel, normally domiciled in Scot...
Margaret Smith:
LD
Yes. I included the phrase "normally domiciled in Scotland" to clarify that.Families who have lost loved ones through service for our country deserve our sup...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I begin by welcoming the review of the legislation governing fatal accident inquiries in Scotland. I particularly welcome the choice of Lord Cullen of Whitek...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
This is a useful debate. As members of the Justice Committee will be aware, I was minded to recommend that, as a result of a petition from Norman Dunning on ...
Keith Brown (Ochil) (SNP):
SNP
The motion welcomes an independent review by a figure of the highest reputation and legal standing to resolve a set of problems that I hope we all agree exis...
Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab):
Lab
When I had the privilege of being convener of the Public Petitions Committee, two of the most harrowing petitions that I encountered, from Enable and from th...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome this extremely interesting debate. The Solicitor General and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice are aware that, along with Margaret Smith and, as it...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this afternoon's debate. Like Pauline McNeill and Michael McMahon, I will support the amendment in t...
Michael Matheson (Falkirk West) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the review and the fact that Lord Cullen has been appointed to undertake it. As many have said, he is an individual with great experience in this f...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
Will Michael Matheson comment on whether we should consider adopting in legislation the system in America, where it is illegal to overtake a school bus at an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
That is a bit far away from the subject of fatal accident inquires.
Michael Matheson:
SNP
It is, but it is an issue that a fatal accident inquiry could consider, and it may be one of its recommendations. That brings me neatly to the issue of an in...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to participate in the debate. It is an important one on an issue that affects families and communities the length and breadth of Sc...
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I will address my remarks—as usual, very late in the debate—to one particular issue that is expected to be considered during the review: the status of recomm...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
Scotland is widely perceived to be a reasonably safe place to live and it is relied on as such. Whatever activity someone takes part in, be it white-water ra...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
The debate and the review of the law on fatal accident inquiries are welcome. As others have said, Lord Cullen's wealth of experience makes him ideally equip...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Does the member share my concern about the deterioration of evidence when there are delays?
John Lamont:
Con
Indeed. If things are not dealt with in a timely manner, there is a danger that evidence becomes less good and less reliable. I agree with Christine Grahame'...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
Despite popular belief, we occasionally agree with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, and the time is right for us to support him in his review of the legisl...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
I welcome the spirit in which the debate has taken place and the concordat that the parties reached beforehand on the amendment, which we are happy to suppor...
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
I know that we will have a debate on this matter, but will the cabinet secretary first of all accept and act on the words of the Secretary of State for Defen...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
The short answer is that we cannot act until we have the flexibility provided by changes to the Scotland Act 1998. We are a creature of that statute and are ...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
If the Parliament votes for the amendment in the name of Margaret Smith, which suggests that the holding of FAIs into the deaths of Scottish service personne...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
We have indicated our general support for the idea—that is why we support Margaret Smith's amendment. I would be delighted if we could deal with the issue ou...
Margaret Smith:
LD
Is it the cabinet secretary's understanding that the UK Government would be prepared to support the making of a section 30 order on the issue, given that bot...