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Chamber

Plenary, 26 Mar 2008

26 Mar 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Health Care Associated Infection
Simpson, Dr Richard Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV
I hate to say this, but I could tell Nanette Milne numerous stories of when contract cleaners have come in, done their bit and gone away, leaving the question of who would clean up the mess in the toilet when someone was sick. Senior nurses end up having to do that. That is fine—we all have to muck in and do the job—but because the cleaners are not part of the team, they are not there all the time. Taking the services back in-house is important.

Important too are the overall staff structures. When she responds to the debate, I would like the Minister for Public Health to address the December 2007 report "National Hand Hygiene NHS Campaign". Under the heading "Next Steps", the report says that funding to allow local health board co-ordinator posts should

"continue for at least two years".

Such work should be mainstreamed. I assume that that can be dealt with using the new funding. We need the whole team to be in place.

I welcome the cabinet secretary's announcement of a nurse consultant for the care commission, but I agree with Mary Scanlon that progress must be made on care homes. Irene Oldfather reminded us that inability to provide home care on a day-case basis can lead to unnecessary hospital admissions, which adds to the pressures.

I welcome the screening programme that has been announced and the funding for it, although I would correct one thing that the cabinet secretary said. Alan Johnson has announced the introduction of screening for all elective patients by March 2009 and for emergency patients as soon as possible over the next three years. He has announced £130 million of funding to achieve that. He has praised the Dutch programme to which Ross Finnie and Jamie Stone referred. The Dutch call it the "search and destroy" system. That programme—Sandra White referred to two other research programmes—will have to be considered carefully. Before any pilots are established, I hope that the monitoring or evaluation group will have a chance to comment on how they are being run.

I have not covered hand hygiene to any great extent. The variation in compliance rates in the two audit periods is alarming. The range in compliance is 50 per cent to 94 per cent in the first audit period and increases to only 59 per cent to 94 per cent in the second audit period, so the 90 per cent target, which I welcome—it is also the World Health Organization's target—is entirely appropriate. It is a challenging target, and we will need a partnership between different groups to achieve it. As Margaret Curran and James Kelly indicated, it is important that patients be encouraged to say to doctors—who are the worst-performing group in the monitoring figures—that they must wash their hands when they move from one patient to another. The Scottish patient safety alliance should be asked to help in that regard.

The audit is obviously important. We are making good progress, but there needs to be a full partnership between health care staff, patients and visitors. We also need to share experience with our colleagues in England, who are introducing substantial programmes, so that we do not develop different methods. The funding in England is huge—£270 million annually by 2011—so I wonder whether we will have enough funding to tackle the issue in the way that the cabinet secretary clearly wants to.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson): NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1621, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on the health care associated infection task force.
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon): SNP
I am pleased to open the debate and to present our ambitious new plans for tackling health care associated infection in Scotland during the next three years ...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab): Lab
I emphasise how much we in the Labour Party welcome the debate. We acknowledge that our amendment will be accepted. I associate myself with many of the point...
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
I hope that I can reassure Margaret Curran that the investment that we have set aside for the next three years is 260 per cent higher than the investment ove...
Margaret Curran: Lab
I will take that—graciously, I hope—as an indication of the cabinet secretary's commitment. However, as I understand it, England has prioritised the issue, a...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): Con
It is always good to follow the gracious Margaret Curran. The Conservatives welcome the debate on health care associated infection. We also welcome the inves...
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD): LD
I do not discern—and I suspect that, by the end of the debate, I will not discern—any disagreement with the proposition that, because health care associated ...
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
I am pleased to intervene on that very serious point. I hope that the member will take some reassurance from my pronunciation of "coherence" during my speech...
Ross Finnie: LD
I am greatly comforted. We must maintain standards in the chamber.Health care associated infection is a serious issue, and I welcome the debate. Margaret Cur...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP): SNP
We have heard a lot—and I am confident that we will hear a lot more as the debate progresses—about the virtues of cleanliness in preventing health care assoc...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): Lab
I agree with Ross Finnie's suggestion that there is likely to be near unanimity on this vital issue. I welcome the cabinet secretary's announcements about th...
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
I am always happy to consider lessons from elsewhere, and I appreciate Helen Eadie's point, but I remind her that I mentioned our policy, which I launched ea...
Helen Eadie: Lab
I am sorry that the cabinet secretary feels aggrieved, but if she had been listening she would know that I congratulated the Government on its screening init...
Michael Matheson (Falkirk West) (SNP): SNP
I welcome the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing's statement. In the spirit of consensus, I acknowledge the work that the previous Labour and Liberal...
Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): Lab
I welcome the commitment that the cabinet secretary has made and the opportunity that the debate gives us to consider how we can reduce the risk of contracti...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con): Con
This debate on dealing with health care associated infections is extremely important. However, I cannot help feeling sad that the reputation of a health serv...
James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in this afternoon's debate on health care associated infections. I endorse the cabinet secretary's announcement and, o...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP): SNP
The cabinet secretary is to be congratulated on this initiative. As the Labour amendment states, the previous Government is to be commended for the establish...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): Lab
Many members have talked about consensus, but consensus does not make the debate any less important—we should debate such issues.The cabinet secretary mentio...
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
Rhoda Grant makes an important point. It may be of interest to her and other members to know that we are working with the trade unions on a national uniform ...
Rhoda Grant: Lab
Yes. I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for that information. The BMA position shows that doctors have the will and wish to see the proposal progressed.W...
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): LD
I agree with nearly everything that has been said in this worthwhile debate. The unanimity of the message will be encouraging to patients and health professi...
Jackson Carlaw (West of Scotland) (Con): Con
We welcome all that Nicola Sturgeon has said today in her speech and her interventions, including the MRSA pilot that she announced, in what has been a usefu...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab): Lab
As all other members who have spoken have said, the debate has been consensual, informed and of a high standard. As Jamie Stone said, that should give comfor...
Nanette Milne: Con
My point was that it does not matter who actually does the cleaning. What is important is the supervision of a high standard of cleaning.
Dr Simpson: Lab
I hate to say this, but I could tell Nanette Milne numerous stories of when contract cleaners have come in, done their bit and gone away, leaving the questio...
The Minister for Public Health (Shona Robison): SNP
I have listened with interest to this constructive, stimulating and wide-ranging debate, which has served as a stark reminder that the Scottish Government an...