Chamber
Plenary, 20 Mar 2008
20 Mar 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Marine Environment
This has been an interesting and important debate. As I reflect on what has been said in relation to the UK position, I note that our SNP colleagues—quite rightly in many ways, and certainly as a source of continuous enjoyment for themselves—enjoy tweaking the noses of Westminster politicians whenever they deem that appropriate. As the marine bill is developed, it will be terribly important to enter into discussions with the UK Government in a constructive and careful way, so that the bill is balanced.
The picture that is beginning to develop, particularly if control is extended out to 200 miles, means that it is extremely important that we recognise the international side of the issue—which is why I included in our amendment the references to the WSSD and the OSPAR convention—as well as the European and UK side, and, of course, the part that we should play in controlling the waters that are contiguous to Scotland.
There are a lot of reasons for that. One of them is that, just as fish do not know boundaries, neither do the minute organisms in our seas. There are parts of our marine environment about which we know very little. An enormous amount of research is being done in deep-sea marine environments and it is recognised that we are hauling fish out of the deep north Atlantic without knowing very much about the ecology that supports them.
Even in the marine environment that we know a lot about, one of the effects of global warming at the moment is the disturbance of quantities of the copepods that exist in the southern North Sea, with the result that southern varieties of those minute organisms are drifting into other parts of the North Sea. The fish that would normally eat the variety of copepod that is being replaced are moving northwards with the new copepods, and other species of fish are moving in. We need a regulatory process and framework for our seas that will be able to cope with such changes in the environment.
That is one of the reasons why the precautionary principle—and, perhaps, the Sandford principle—should be applied to our marine environment as well as to our terrestrial environment. If the marine environment is not protected in a way that ensures that it is at least robust and can survive a certain amount of change, it is going to be ever more susceptible to the damage that is beginning to be inflicted by climate change and which will, without doubt, be inflicted over the next 30 or 40 years.
I was glad to hear that the cabinet secretary has written to the UK Minister of State for Energy about dolphins. I would like to explore the issue of the combined threat to the marine environment of oil exploration and offshore wind power. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that offshore wind power has tremendous possibilities. In many people's minds, it represents a preferable alternative to the large number of wind projects that are presently queuing up to be built in Scotland's beautiful environment, from north of here to Cape Wrath. We will be able to learn from the research that is being done in the experimental stations in Orkney what we can and cannot do in our marine environment.
There is no doubt that any marine development comes at a cost. We need legislation that minimises the effects of developments in our marine environment but at the same time allows developments that will be of value in preserving our environment—I refer, in particular, to offshore wind—to go ahead where their impact will be minimal. I congratulate the minister on bringing the debate to the chamber and look forward to many future debates on the subject as the preparation of the bill continues.
The picture that is beginning to develop, particularly if control is extended out to 200 miles, means that it is extremely important that we recognise the international side of the issue—which is why I included in our amendment the references to the WSSD and the OSPAR convention—as well as the European and UK side, and, of course, the part that we should play in controlling the waters that are contiguous to Scotland.
There are a lot of reasons for that. One of them is that, just as fish do not know boundaries, neither do the minute organisms in our seas. There are parts of our marine environment about which we know very little. An enormous amount of research is being done in deep-sea marine environments and it is recognised that we are hauling fish out of the deep north Atlantic without knowing very much about the ecology that supports them.
Even in the marine environment that we know a lot about, one of the effects of global warming at the moment is the disturbance of quantities of the copepods that exist in the southern North Sea, with the result that southern varieties of those minute organisms are drifting into other parts of the North Sea. The fish that would normally eat the variety of copepod that is being replaced are moving northwards with the new copepods, and other species of fish are moving in. We need a regulatory process and framework for our seas that will be able to cope with such changes in the environment.
That is one of the reasons why the precautionary principle—and, perhaps, the Sandford principle—should be applied to our marine environment as well as to our terrestrial environment. If the marine environment is not protected in a way that ensures that it is at least robust and can survive a certain amount of change, it is going to be ever more susceptible to the damage that is beginning to be inflicted by climate change and which will, without doubt, be inflicted over the next 30 or 40 years.
I was glad to hear that the cabinet secretary has written to the UK Minister of State for Energy about dolphins. I would like to explore the issue of the combined threat to the marine environment of oil exploration and offshore wind power. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that offshore wind power has tremendous possibilities. In many people's minds, it represents a preferable alternative to the large number of wind projects that are presently queuing up to be built in Scotland's beautiful environment, from north of here to Cape Wrath. We will be able to learn from the research that is being done in the experimental stations in Orkney what we can and cannot do in our marine environment.
There is no doubt that any marine development comes at a cost. We need legislation that minimises the effects of developments in our marine environment but at the same time allows developments that will be of value in preserving our environment—I refer, in particular, to offshore wind—to go ahead where their impact will be minimal. I congratulate the minister on bringing the debate to the chamber and look forward to many future debates on the subject as the preparation of the bill continues.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1602, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on Scotland's marine environment.
The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead):
SNP
The sea has defined and shaped Scotland and sustained our communities and nation since time immemorial. Our relationship with the sea has helped to forge our...
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):
Lab
The bottom line, which came across strongly in the cabinet secretary's speech, is that we have had a lot of discussions to date. There has been a huge amount...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
Does the member agree that, in such a complicated scenario, which raises both devolved and reserved issues, it would be much better, simpler and more effecti...
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
The marine management organisation is where we should sort that out. That is why I would like to get on to debating the bill, because the MMO will need to ha...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
It is crucial that coastal and marine-based activity is managed in a sustainable way that integrates socioeconomic and environmental factors for the long-ter...
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
There is quite a range of UK bodies that have clear accountability to the Scottish Parliament. There are different models that we can use. Is Mike Rumbles su...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
No, I am not, despite SNP members tempting me to say that I am. I am suggesting that we should have devolved responsibility for planning in the marine spatia...
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
I was absolutely clear that we fully support all the AGMACS recommendations. We did not have to put that into the amendment because there are a lot of recomm...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Sarah Boyack does not want to go down the same route as the Liberal Democrats. In this case, she is not as environmentally friendly as we are, and it is impo...
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
I am delighted that the marine environment is being discussed in the chamber. I will support Sarah Boyack's and Mike Rumbles's amendments, which are not mutu...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con):
Con
Today's debate on Scotland's marine environment is welcome and has been surprisingly consensual thus far, notwithstanding the best efforts of Mike Rumbles to...
Dave Thompson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
The marine bill debate raises a number of issues, including the need for enhanced environmental protection that respects the rich diversity of our marine lif...
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I appreciate the importance of caged fish farms. However, does the member agree that escapes, such as recently occurred in Loch Etive, can be detrimental to ...
Dave Thompson:
SNP
I agree that escapes from fish farms can be a serious problem. We must ensure that they are kept to a minimum.Marine parks could, however, bring many benefit...
Peter Peacock (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
Like other members, I welcome this debate and hope that it allows ministers to accelerate the progress of what, in its attempt to rationalise all the institu...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP):
SNP
I have a constituency that has extensive coastline and sizeable island and coastal communities, so I welcome this important debate on Scotland's marine envir...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I support all that was said by my colleague Sarah Boyack and I support the amendment in her name.The first thing that hit me when I started to explore the is...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
At this stage of a debate, most of the arguments have usually been made. In this debate there has been consensus among members on the broad principles. There...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
My point was about expectations. The cabinet secretary said nine months ago that he would announce plans for a bill soon, and I wanted to urge him forward.
Rob Gibson:
SNP
I thank the member for his friendly intervention. My point is that the number of people that the Government can deploy on such issues is limited, so we shoul...
Robin Harper:
Green
Does Rob Gibson acknowledge the real difference between the amount of disruption that is caused by, for instance, an offshore wind farm close to or in the Mo...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
We have to sort out such issues. In order to achieve balance, we will have to put in place an organisation such as we are discussing. In the meantime, we wil...
Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab):
Lab
I disagree slightly with Kenneth Gibson's allegation that the previous Executive did absolutely nothing about our marine environment for about 96 months. I a...
Jamie Hepburn (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Members will need to forgive me if my voice crackles a little today. It comes from urging Partick Thistle on to its well-deserved draw at Ibrox last night. T...
Robin Harper:
Green
This has been an interesting and important debate. As I reflect on what has been said in relation to the UK position, I note that our SNP colleagues—quite ri...
Jim Hume (South of Scotland) (LD):
LD
The debate has highlighted our marine and coastal environment, which contains many special and some unique landscapes of national and international renown. A...
The Minister for Environment (Michael Russell):
SNP
Beam me up.
Jim Hume:
LD
I wish they would beam me up, Mr Russell.Liberal Democrats welcome any proposal for a marine national park, which was mentioned by Sarah Boyack and John Scot...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
Why will the Liberal Democrats vote against an amendment that seeks to speed up the process? That is exactly what the member is calling for.