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Chamber

Plenary, 17 Jan 2008

17 Jan 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Firearms
MacAskill, Kenny SNP Edinburgh East and Musselburgh Watch on SPTV
We are having a summit to involve all those who have an interest—whether through sport or farming, or as police. We must have a system that is fit for purpose and which is clear, coherent and understandable. At present, lacunas exist in relation to BB guns and air weapons, for example. A hunting rifle is dealt with differently from a shotgun, as I said. There might be good reason for having a differentiation in the legal system, but we should have one all-encompassing act and sort out what we want as a people. That is why we are driving the issue forward.

The consultation document to which I referred said:

"the legislation has been amended a number of times, and as a result the framework of controls can be difficult to understand and enforce."

We agree about that, which is why we want to take action.

The consultation sought the public's views on an overhaul of the firearms legislation. It is disappointing that, following responses to that consultation in 2004, no comprehensive review has been undertaken. Despite indicating that a wholesale review would follow, the Home Office no longer seems to consider the issue sufficiently important, but I do, the Government does and so do our communities. I therefore asked the Home Secretary to let the Scottish Parliament decide what is best for Scotland and to do what we can to take the action that many people throughout Scotland demand to tackle the scourge of air weapons. Regrettably, she refused my request, but I have asked her to think again.

I acknowledge the work that has been done in recent years to improve the legislation—most recently by tightening gun laws through the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006. That is welcome, but it did not go far enough and it falls far short of the comprehensive review that we were promised in 2004 and of a system that will be fit for purpose to protect our citizens in the 21st century.

A consolidated act is needed. As I said, the law must be understandable not just to the specialist few. However, when we are dealing with an act from 1968 that has been amended by something like 21 acts and affected by 13 statutory instruments, it is clear that not only cannot the man and the woman in the street understand the legislation but, often, those with legal expertise and police officers have difficulties, too. It is therefore time for an all-encompassing act that sets out who can buy a gun, for what purpose and from where. The police will tell members how time consuming the current system is, and we do not want the police to be tied up in needless bureaucracy, as Mr Aitken and other Conservative members know.

Communities throughout Scotland are crying out for further action on air weapons and to ignore their calls is simply unacceptable. In every week that passes, further innocent victims are maimed by the use and misuse of such weapons. Already this year, two incidents have been brought to my attention in which an air-gun is alleged to have been fired at houses in North Berwick, which terrified people in their homes and neighbouring residents. In my discussions with Andy Morton, Sharon McMillan and Mick North, other incidents came to light. Unfortunately, such incidents in many parts of Scotland are not rare—they are far too common. That is why we must tackle the misuse of air weapons in our communities.

We need to work with all—with the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, shooting interests and others—on practical measures, whether they are legislative or non-legislative. We need to make the law easier to understand and enforce and, as a result, make our communities safer.

No Government could fail to act when firearms casualties in Scotland rose by a quarter last year, when one in three of those casualties was a child and when the number of cases of attempted murder involving firearms was almost three times what it was a decade ago.

A Government has no greater duty than to protect its citizens. We cannot and must not sit on our hands. Our communities want action, the police want it and we as a Government demand it. It is time to act on the problem of air weapons in our communities. Whether legislation is passed here or in Westminster is incidental. As I said, the issue is about not the status of Parliaments or politicians, but the safety of our communities. Action needs to be taken and action there must be. If Westminster will not do it, Holyrood must.

I move,

That the Parliament recognises the increasing public concern about gun crime; agrees that action is required to give better protection to our communities by effectively banning the ownership and use of all firearms and air weapons other than for recognised and legitimate occupational and sporting interests, and supports the Scottish Government's intention to engage with the wide range of interests, including the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland (ACPOS), sporting bodies and gun lobbies, in re-energising the United Kingdom debate started in 2004, but not progressed, on reform of the existing firearms regime into a system that is simpler to understand, administer and enforce and places prime importance on public safety.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson): NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1153, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on firearms.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill): SNP
This debate is long overdue. The misuse of firearms, particularly air weapons, remains a major problem in our communities. There is a distinct problem in Sco...
Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): Lab
I presume that the suggestion of hosting a summit has been well thought out and is not just a political stunt. If that is the case, will the minister explain...
Kenny MacAskill: SNP
We all know that various matters relating to the Post Office are reserved to Westminster, and they may be involved. I assure Mr Henry that we are dealing wit...
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): Lab
I am sure that members are glad that we are dealing with the issue seriously and looking to tackle the problems. My question extends the debate from air-guns...
Kenny MacAskill: SNP
Off the top of my head, I do not know. I presume that we might be able to do something through a licensing regime. I took a call on the point from the Greeno...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con): Con
Does the cabinet secretary suggest that the current differentiation between the system for regulating firearms and that for shotguns is likely to end and tha...
Kenny MacAskill: SNP
We are having a summit to involve all those who have an interest—whether through sport or farming, or as police. We must have a system that is fit for purpos...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab
The strict control of firearms is essential if the public are to be kept safe from violence that involves guns. This afternoon, we will debate how to win the...
Kenny MacAskill: SNP
Labour's amendment refers to"retaining consistency across all parts of the United Kingdom".There seems to be inconsistency in that Northern Ireland has a sep...
Pauline McNeill: Lab
The cabinet secretary is being a wee bit mischievous, as the character of the problem in Northern Ireland is clearly different. There has been generous suppo...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing): SNP
A central question is whether all members agree that air-guns should be licensed. Does the Labour Party in Scotland support that position?
Pauline McNeill: Lab
I will talk about the Labour Party's position and enlighten the member on that matter.We need to look in greater detail at the workability of any further res...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): Con
The cabinet secretary was correct in stating that this is a serious issue that we must treat with the utmost seriousness. Much of what he said today was perf...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
We accept the point that the law in itself is never a total solution to any problem. That applies in this case. However, does Bill Aitken accept—given that t...
Bill Aitken: Con
All such ideas have varying degrees of merit. Once the appropriate inquiries have been carried out and consultations taken place, there could be a case for l...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD): LD
I agree with the minister that there is increasing public concern about gun crime. In 2006-07, the Scottish police recorded 1,245 offences in which it was al...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
Mike Pringle argues that legislation in Scotland that did not exist throughout the UK would be unenforceable. We would prefer UK-wide legislation, but if tha...
Mike Pringle: LD
That is probably right, but I will come on to the considerable number of measures that have been introduced recently—we should give them time to bed in. If t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): Lab
We move to the open debate on the motion.
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I suggest that we should distinguish clearly between three kinds of weapons: the first are air-guns, the second I will call handguns, and an adequate descrip...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab): Lab
I rise in support of my colleague Pauline McNeill's amendment.Obviously, the safety of communities throughout Scotland is the most important subject that Par...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
Pauline McNeill said that anyone who wants an air-gun should be able to demonstrate the purpose for which it is required. Does Bill Butler agree with us that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
You are in your final minute, Mr Butler.
Bill Butler: Lab
We should have a system that operates across the UK and which militates against—Interruption. As Duncan McNeil said from a sedentary position, criminals do n...
Bill Wilson (West of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
No one can deny that we have a problem with gun crime in Scotland. I will give two examples from the west of Scotland to follow the many cases that have alre...
Alex Johnstone: Con
Will the member attempt to deal with the irony—some people might call it an enigma—that in respect of the pools of illegally held firearms and legally held f...
Bill Wilson: SNP
I do not accept the member's point and I will explain why. He was confused about the fundamental difference that exists between air-guns and firearms.It is o...
Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): Lab
At a stroke, Bill Wilson has managed to destroy the efforts of Kenny MacAskill to develop a constructive argument about dealing with something on the basis o...
Kenny MacAskill: SNP
I made it quite clear that, as a member of the SNP, I think that this Parliament should legislate. The member is talking about 2005, when I was referring to ...