Chamber
Plenary, 17 Jan 2008
17 Jan 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Firearms
We all know that various matters relating to the Post Office are reserved to Westminster, and they may be involved. I assure Mr Henry that we are dealing with the matter as expeditiously as possible and that the Government has dispatched an invitation. I am not in a position to comment on why that has not arrived, but the member can rest assured that we are viewing the issue most seriously. We are genuine in trying to ensure that we protect our communities because, as I will go on to say, the current legislation is inadequate.
We want a summit to check the current system. Anyone who wants to contribute, including Mr Henry, will be welcome to come. We want to work on improving the current piecemeal system in a collaborative way. This is not about the status of Parliaments or politicians, but about the safety of our communities.
When I meet those who have suffered injury or bereavement through firearms, as I did earlier this afternoon with Sharon McMillan, Andy Morton and Dr Mick North, I am saddened that the action that is needed in our communities has not been taken. They ask not which Parliament has the powers, but what Parliament—any Parliament—is doing about it. As a Scottish National Party member, of course I think that this Parliament should have the powers. Indeed, discussions are taking place among the Opposition parties on the powers that the Parliament should have, and firearms may be part of that. However, we will not be precious or stand on ceremony. If London wants to take action, and will take action, that is fine—but it must do so. If not, it must give us the powers to act.
Air weapons are not toys. We know perfectly well that such guns can cause serious injury and, as such, they should not be freely available to just anyone. There are good reasons why some people who have a legitimate reason to hold them, such as for pest control or recognised sporting events, should be allowed to retain them. We must stop the people who want an air weapon to take pot shots for what they call fun. We all know that the proliferation of air-guns in our streets is damaging our communities—leaving residents as prisoners in their homes, injuring and maiming people, pets and wild animals, and even tragically claiming lives.
For most firearms, it is for the police locally to decide whether an individual has a good reason and is a fit and proper person to hold a licence. The same arrangements must apply for air weapons. We cannot allow those who would use them for nefarious purposes to buy them over the counter. That is ridiculous and unacceptable. Is it appropriate that a licence is required for the use of a shotgun to deal with pest control while someone does not need a licence for an air-gun? Is it appropriate that someone who wants a hunting rifle has to meet good-reason criteria for each rifle and quantity of ammunition requested, and yet someone who wants a shotgun does not?
If a shotgun licence is refused, the onus is on the chief constable to prove that the applicant has no good reason. An air-gun does not require a licence at all, but, as we all know, any firearm can be lethal in the wrong hands.
We want a summit to check the current system. Anyone who wants to contribute, including Mr Henry, will be welcome to come. We want to work on improving the current piecemeal system in a collaborative way. This is not about the status of Parliaments or politicians, but about the safety of our communities.
When I meet those who have suffered injury or bereavement through firearms, as I did earlier this afternoon with Sharon McMillan, Andy Morton and Dr Mick North, I am saddened that the action that is needed in our communities has not been taken. They ask not which Parliament has the powers, but what Parliament—any Parliament—is doing about it. As a Scottish National Party member, of course I think that this Parliament should have the powers. Indeed, discussions are taking place among the Opposition parties on the powers that the Parliament should have, and firearms may be part of that. However, we will not be precious or stand on ceremony. If London wants to take action, and will take action, that is fine—but it must do so. If not, it must give us the powers to act.
Air weapons are not toys. We know perfectly well that such guns can cause serious injury and, as such, they should not be freely available to just anyone. There are good reasons why some people who have a legitimate reason to hold them, such as for pest control or recognised sporting events, should be allowed to retain them. We must stop the people who want an air weapon to take pot shots for what they call fun. We all know that the proliferation of air-guns in our streets is damaging our communities—leaving residents as prisoners in their homes, injuring and maiming people, pets and wild animals, and even tragically claiming lives.
For most firearms, it is for the police locally to decide whether an individual has a good reason and is a fit and proper person to hold a licence. The same arrangements must apply for air weapons. We cannot allow those who would use them for nefarious purposes to buy them over the counter. That is ridiculous and unacceptable. Is it appropriate that a licence is required for the use of a shotgun to deal with pest control while someone does not need a licence for an air-gun? Is it appropriate that someone who wants a hunting rifle has to meet good-reason criteria for each rifle and quantity of ammunition requested, and yet someone who wants a shotgun does not?
If a shotgun licence is refused, the onus is on the chief constable to prove that the applicant has no good reason. An air-gun does not require a licence at all, but, as we all know, any firearm can be lethal in the wrong hands.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1153, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on firearms.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
This debate is long overdue. The misuse of firearms, particularly air weapons, remains a major problem in our communities. There is a distinct problem in Sco...
Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab):
Lab
I presume that the suggestion of hosting a summit has been well thought out and is not just a political stunt. If that is the case, will the minister explain...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
We all know that various matters relating to the Post Office are reserved to Westminster, and they may be involved. I assure Mr Henry that we are dealing wit...
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):
Lab
I am sure that members are glad that we are dealing with the issue seriously and looking to tackle the problems. My question extends the debate from air-guns...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
Off the top of my head, I do not know. I presume that we might be able to do something through a licensing regime. I took a call on the point from the Greeno...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
Does the cabinet secretary suggest that the current differentiation between the system for regulating firearms and that for shotguns is likely to end and tha...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
We are having a summit to involve all those who have an interest—whether through sport or farming, or as police. We must have a system that is fit for purpos...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
The strict control of firearms is essential if the public are to be kept safe from violence that involves guns. This afternoon, we will debate how to win the...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
Labour's amendment refers to"retaining consistency across all parts of the United Kingdom".There seems to be inconsistency in that Northern Ireland has a sep...
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
The cabinet secretary is being a wee bit mischievous, as the character of the problem in Northern Ireland is clearly different. There has been generous suppo...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing):
SNP
A central question is whether all members agree that air-guns should be licensed. Does the Labour Party in Scotland support that position?
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
I will talk about the Labour Party's position and enlighten the member on that matter.We need to look in greater detail at the workability of any further res...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
The cabinet secretary was correct in stating that this is a serious issue that we must treat with the utmost seriousness. Much of what he said today was perf...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
We accept the point that the law in itself is never a total solution to any problem. That applies in this case. However, does Bill Aitken accept—given that t...
Bill Aitken:
Con
All such ideas have varying degrees of merit. Once the appropriate inquiries have been carried out and consultations taken place, there could be a case for l...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
I agree with the minister that there is increasing public concern about gun crime. In 2006-07, the Scottish police recorded 1,245 offences in which it was al...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Mike Pringle argues that legislation in Scotland that did not exist throughout the UK would be unenforceable. We would prefer UK-wide legislation, but if tha...
Mike Pringle:
LD
That is probably right, but I will come on to the considerable number of measures that have been introduced recently—we should give them time to bed in. If t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
We move to the open debate on the motion.
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I suggest that we should distinguish clearly between three kinds of weapons: the first are air-guns, the second I will call handguns, and an adequate descrip...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
I rise in support of my colleague Pauline McNeill's amendment.Obviously, the safety of communities throughout Scotland is the most important subject that Par...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Pauline McNeill said that anyone who wants an air-gun should be able to demonstrate the purpose for which it is required. Does Bill Butler agree with us that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
You are in your final minute, Mr Butler.
Bill Butler:
Lab
We should have a system that operates across the UK and which militates against—Interruption. As Duncan McNeil said from a sedentary position, criminals do n...
Bill Wilson (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
No one can deny that we have a problem with gun crime in Scotland. I will give two examples from the west of Scotland to follow the many cases that have alre...
Alex Johnstone:
Con
Will the member attempt to deal with the irony—some people might call it an enigma—that in respect of the pools of illegally held firearms and legally held f...
Bill Wilson:
SNP
I do not accept the member's point and I will explain why. He was confused about the fundamental difference that exists between air-guns and firearms.It is o...
Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab):
Lab
At a stroke, Bill Wilson has managed to destroy the efforts of Kenny MacAskill to develop a constructive argument about dealing with something on the basis o...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
I made it quite clear that, as a member of the SNP, I think that this Parliament should legislate. The member is talking about 2005, when I was referring to ...