Chamber
Plenary, 09 Jan 2008
09 Jan 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Serious Organised Crime
I have great pleasure in speaking in the debate because, unlike the subjects of other debates, serious organised crime in Scotland is an issue that resonates with people and is not viewed in the abstract. Over the years, there have been written parliamentary questions and debates on the issue, especially with regard to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. Two years on from the 2005 act, the issue was part of the new Scottish Government's key principles and priorities in accordance with its objective of creating safer and stronger communities. I welcome today's motion. The eight Scottish police forces, HM Revenue and Customs and the Scottish Crime and Drug Enforcement Agency have made great strides in their attempts to reduce the activities of organised crime.
I will talk more about the methods that are employed by the crime overlords, while acknowledging that Scotland is just a pawn in worldwide organised crime. I hope that a lasting benefit of the debate is that a light is shone on the activities of crime families and how deeply the problem is embedded in our society. Many of the resources of the various crime enforcement agencies are targeted at the fight against illegal drugs in our communities—to which Bill Butler referred—and the associated human costs, namely family break-up. As we have heard in recent debates, grandparents are forced to intervene to provide support to counter the problems that are associated with second and third-generation drug addiction.
Clearly, economics is a factor. Illegal drugs such as cocaine are cheaper and more affordable because, in recent times, the market has been flooded by an oversupply of class A drugs in our urban and rural communities. The drugs are not produced in Scotland, which adds an international dimension to the criminal activities. The returns for getting involved are deemed to be worth while financially, which reduces the risks in the eyes of those who commit organised crime on a daily basis—it is their perverse economic contribution to society. A number of years ago, at a seminar, a senior police officer indicated that the black economy, through the drugs industry, was the third or fourth highest earner in Scotland. That shows the value of that market. The availability of class A drugs, and people's demand for them, drives the returns from crime. We should take any opportunity we can to smash that economic force.
Since its establishment, the SCDEA has acknowledged the important principle of following the money. One of the agency's key operating functions, the Scottish money laundering unit, recognises that crime is not confined to some small-scale outfit operating in the schemes of Scotland's bigger urban cities. The activities of some of Scotland's professions need serious scrutiny, as they can unwittingly and sometimes tacitly offer a support structure to protect organised crime's ill-gotten gains.
As my colleague Stuart McMillan said in connection with the private hire car companies that are being established throughout Scotland, local authority planning and licensing departments are not always best equipped to tackle the level of activity that is associated with organised crime in their areas. As we have heard, many MSPs have been approached with allegations that builders or private hire taxi companies are nothing more than front organisations for serious organised crime. I am not saying that every individual or company in those industries is involved in organised crime, but the situation has become so bad that legitimate businesses are under threat from criminal elements. The laundering of ill-gotten gains through such routes means that legitimate companies often struggle to maintain their businesses.
The need to tackle serious organised crime has never been greater in today's society, and it is right that the Scottish Government should give such a high priority to its desire to create safer communities. It is a fair comment that crime families not only operate in the sectors of business to which I have referred, but move into others when they see opportunities. I am surely not the only one who has been surprised by the proliferation of so-called business enterprises—tanning parlours and nail salons seem to be the latest such enterprises—over the past few years.
Like many other members who are present, I had the dubious pleasure of being in the chamber for the members' business debate on the Glasgow Milton and Chirnsyde community initiative. The debate was not bad—quite the opposite: the practical examples that were raised during the debate highlighted the courage of a community and its activists under real attack from organised crime in a shameful state of affairs—but the lack of support that the community activists received from officialdom showed signs of institutional inertia.
That inertia should not be repeated in a modern Scotland. Indeed, I am hopeful that the serious organised crime task force will make a significant and sustained contribution to tackling organised crime head on and ensuring that the proceeds of crime are redirected to assist communities in our fight against organised crime.
I conclude by supporting Margaret Smith's plea that the cabinet secretary should make every effort to speed up the creation of the Scottish Police Services Authority campus at Gartcosh so that we can bring under one roof the combined forces that can tackle crime head on, not only in Scotland or Britain but throughout Europe and the rest of the world. As I mentioned, crime is not confined to Scotland. The international dimension shows not only that we have to tackle crime at root cause in Scotland, but that we must work with other agencies throughout the world to ensure that we tackle it at that level. We must not become insular and consider only Scotland's problems, but should work with agencies throughout the world to ensure that we root out the real causes of crime that blight our society today.
I will talk more about the methods that are employed by the crime overlords, while acknowledging that Scotland is just a pawn in worldwide organised crime. I hope that a lasting benefit of the debate is that a light is shone on the activities of crime families and how deeply the problem is embedded in our society. Many of the resources of the various crime enforcement agencies are targeted at the fight against illegal drugs in our communities—to which Bill Butler referred—and the associated human costs, namely family break-up. As we have heard in recent debates, grandparents are forced to intervene to provide support to counter the problems that are associated with second and third-generation drug addiction.
Clearly, economics is a factor. Illegal drugs such as cocaine are cheaper and more affordable because, in recent times, the market has been flooded by an oversupply of class A drugs in our urban and rural communities. The drugs are not produced in Scotland, which adds an international dimension to the criminal activities. The returns for getting involved are deemed to be worth while financially, which reduces the risks in the eyes of those who commit organised crime on a daily basis—it is their perverse economic contribution to society. A number of years ago, at a seminar, a senior police officer indicated that the black economy, through the drugs industry, was the third or fourth highest earner in Scotland. That shows the value of that market. The availability of class A drugs, and people's demand for them, drives the returns from crime. We should take any opportunity we can to smash that economic force.
Since its establishment, the SCDEA has acknowledged the important principle of following the money. One of the agency's key operating functions, the Scottish money laundering unit, recognises that crime is not confined to some small-scale outfit operating in the schemes of Scotland's bigger urban cities. The activities of some of Scotland's professions need serious scrutiny, as they can unwittingly and sometimes tacitly offer a support structure to protect organised crime's ill-gotten gains.
As my colleague Stuart McMillan said in connection with the private hire car companies that are being established throughout Scotland, local authority planning and licensing departments are not always best equipped to tackle the level of activity that is associated with organised crime in their areas. As we have heard, many MSPs have been approached with allegations that builders or private hire taxi companies are nothing more than front organisations for serious organised crime. I am not saying that every individual or company in those industries is involved in organised crime, but the situation has become so bad that legitimate businesses are under threat from criminal elements. The laundering of ill-gotten gains through such routes means that legitimate companies often struggle to maintain their businesses.
The need to tackle serious organised crime has never been greater in today's society, and it is right that the Scottish Government should give such a high priority to its desire to create safer communities. It is a fair comment that crime families not only operate in the sectors of business to which I have referred, but move into others when they see opportunities. I am surely not the only one who has been surprised by the proliferation of so-called business enterprises—tanning parlours and nail salons seem to be the latest such enterprises—over the past few years.
Like many other members who are present, I had the dubious pleasure of being in the chamber for the members' business debate on the Glasgow Milton and Chirnsyde community initiative. The debate was not bad—quite the opposite: the practical examples that were raised during the debate highlighted the courage of a community and its activists under real attack from organised crime in a shameful state of affairs—but the lack of support that the community activists received from officialdom showed signs of institutional inertia.
That inertia should not be repeated in a modern Scotland. Indeed, I am hopeful that the serious organised crime task force will make a significant and sustained contribution to tackling organised crime head on and ensuring that the proceeds of crime are redirected to assist communities in our fight against organised crime.
I conclude by supporting Margaret Smith's plea that the cabinet secretary should make every effort to speed up the creation of the Scottish Police Services Authority campus at Gartcosh so that we can bring under one roof the combined forces that can tackle crime head on, not only in Scotland or Britain but throughout Europe and the rest of the world. As I mentioned, crime is not confined to Scotland. The international dimension shows not only that we have to tackle crime at root cause in Scotland, but that we must work with other agencies throughout the world to ensure that we tackle it at that level. We must not become insular and consider only Scotland's problems, but should work with agencies throughout the world to ensure that we root out the real causes of crime that blight our society today.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1101, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on serious organised crime.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
I welcome this opportunity to debate one of the major threats facing Scotland today: serious organised crime. Organised crime impacts on us all. For too long...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
In his letter to the Home Secretary, has the minister referred to the possibility of Scotland retaining all the money that it gets under the 2002 act? I unde...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
My understanding is that the figure is 50 per cent above £17 million per annum. We are obviously happy to discuss the matter. That particular aspect was not ...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
I very much appreciate what the minister has just said, but what will be done differently to persuade young people that there is another way—other than joini...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
The member and I have touched on such matters at hustings and on other occasions. She is aware that some matters are outwith the justice department's silo. T...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
On the effectiveness of Europol in helping to prevent crime in Scotland, is the minister satisfied that the intelligence that he receives from Europol regard...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
I believe so. I met the director general of Europol. I am not aware of any evidence from police officers or organisations in Scotland that appropriate inform...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I am pleased to see that, in 2008, our weekly discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice will continue. I welcome this debate on serious organised cr...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
The member referred to long sentences for serious criminals. Does she see that being balanced by shorter sentences for less serious crimes?
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
I am clear that, in relation to serious organised crime, we need long sentences. My point is that showing criminals that we can hurt them by stripping them o...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the debate. As Pauline McNeill said, this is the first week back, so we have the first justice debate, and another is due next week. I also welcome...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
I am tempted to say that if Margaret Smith comes to some harm in the next few days, we will know who is responsible.In his opening remarks, the Cabinet Secre...
Mike Pringle:
LD
One problem is that often the Mercedes or house is owned not by the drug dealer but by his wife or son. What do we do about that? How do we address that prob...
Bill Aitken:
Con
Mr Pringle highlights what is undoubtedly a real problem, but at some stage the house will have been part of a transaction. In many instances, the house will...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
You should begin to wind up now.
Bill Aitken:
Con
The Mr Bigs of the criminal world need to know that we are after their houses—whether in Spain or in posh areas of Glasgow—and that we are after their cars.I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of around six minutes.
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
Serious organised crime is one of the most difficult issues before our Parliament because it goes right to the basis of our civil society.I begin by going ba...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
The cabinet secretary will remember that, in a wide-ranging contribution to the first major debate on justice matters after last year's election, he acknowle...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I start by saying that I am rather disappointed in the Lib Dem amendment. It does them no favours and it belittles the debate, which is about a very serious ...
Margaret Smith:
LD
In my speech I sought to remind Sandra White and others that in the fight against serious organised crime there is a role not only for specialists but for th...
Sandra White:
SNP
I do not want to know about the Liberal Democrats' manifesto commitments, some of which certainly have not been taken forward. That said, I take the member's...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I support the motion and the amendments. I have no difficulty whatsoever in supporting Margaret Smith's amendment. Indeed, I am very pleased with her amendme...
Stuart McMillan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the debate. I also welcome the Scottish Government's creation of the serious organised crime task force.As each member who has spoken thus far has ...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab):
Lab
I asked to speak in this debate even though the subject is outwith my shadow portfolio, because it means so much to people in my constituency. The debate giv...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I have great pleasure in speaking in the debate because, unlike the subjects of other debates, serious organised crime in Scotland is an issue that resonates...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
The debate has been vital in maintaining the dialogue between elected representatives that is required to tackle an adaptive and constantly evolving problem....
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
The debate has been useful as it has allowed us to consider the issues connected with serious crime and how we might tackle it. There is much in the Governme...
Bill Butler:
Lab
Will the member give way on that point?