Chamber
Plenary, 09 Jan 2008
09 Jan 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Serious Organised Crime
I support the motion and the amendments. I have no difficulty whatsoever in supporting Margaret Smith's amendment. Indeed, I am very pleased with her amendment. I ask the chamber to reflect on the pan-European and UK co-operation dimensions to the debate. I also ask the chamber to reflect on what my colleagues mentioned and what is most important—the serious crime of human trafficking.
When the cabinet secretary, or one of his colleagues, winds up the debate, I ask him to tell me what meetings he has attended with ministers of other regional governments in Europe at which serious organised crime was on the agenda. If such meetings were held, were any significant decisions taken? Also, has the cabinet secretary attended meetings with his counterparts in Wales, Northern Ireland, and Westminster? If so, are further meetings planned with those partners to work through the agendas that are relevant to serious organised crime? Is he planning any major intergovernmental conferences in Scotland with key stakeholders to share knowledge and experience in this vital area? How does he propose to report back to the Parliament on any such meetings?
Now that the European Union has extended its boundaries and EU membership includes Romania and Bulgaria, will the cabinet secretary make a point of exploring with those two countries in particular the ways in which Scotland can share its knowledge and experience? We should be participating in the various EU programme initiatives to welcome the new member states.
By developing relationships with countries such as Romania and Bulgaria, and thereby having a particular focus on them, we will open up the possibility of making a real difference in countries that are, like Scotland, on the periphery of Europe. Scotland is the westernmost point of the EU, and Romania and Bulgaria mark the easternmost point. The British Council is already well established in those countries, which gives us a good foundation for taking forward such work. We know that those countries are the gateway into and out of Europe. As intelligence is gathered in the future, establishing good relationships with those countries could prove to be of real benefit.
Like other members who have spoken in the debate, I share the call for members to underline—underline in triplicate—our support for all those who are involved in the huge challenge of tackling the trafficking of women and children for the sex industry. Just before Christmas, representatives of the Women's Guild in Scotland, whose membership exceeds 30,000 lobbied members on the issue and told us of the guild's grave concern about the trade. Parliamentarians who attended the presentation were visibly moved by what they heard and we gave the guild a commitment that we would do our utmost to support its campaign against trafficking.
Although the cabinet secretary had to speak about the theft of famous paintings and property, my concern is more for crimes of violence, such as those that are perpetrated by the criminals who are involved in the serious organised crime of trafficking.
When the cabinet secretary, or one of his colleagues, winds up the debate, I ask him to tell me what meetings he has attended with ministers of other regional governments in Europe at which serious organised crime was on the agenda. If such meetings were held, were any significant decisions taken? Also, has the cabinet secretary attended meetings with his counterparts in Wales, Northern Ireland, and Westminster? If so, are further meetings planned with those partners to work through the agendas that are relevant to serious organised crime? Is he planning any major intergovernmental conferences in Scotland with key stakeholders to share knowledge and experience in this vital area? How does he propose to report back to the Parliament on any such meetings?
Now that the European Union has extended its boundaries and EU membership includes Romania and Bulgaria, will the cabinet secretary make a point of exploring with those two countries in particular the ways in which Scotland can share its knowledge and experience? We should be participating in the various EU programme initiatives to welcome the new member states.
By developing relationships with countries such as Romania and Bulgaria, and thereby having a particular focus on them, we will open up the possibility of making a real difference in countries that are, like Scotland, on the periphery of Europe. Scotland is the westernmost point of the EU, and Romania and Bulgaria mark the easternmost point. The British Council is already well established in those countries, which gives us a good foundation for taking forward such work. We know that those countries are the gateway into and out of Europe. As intelligence is gathered in the future, establishing good relationships with those countries could prove to be of real benefit.
Like other members who have spoken in the debate, I share the call for members to underline—underline in triplicate—our support for all those who are involved in the huge challenge of tackling the trafficking of women and children for the sex industry. Just before Christmas, representatives of the Women's Guild in Scotland, whose membership exceeds 30,000 lobbied members on the issue and told us of the guild's grave concern about the trade. Parliamentarians who attended the presentation were visibly moved by what they heard and we gave the guild a commitment that we would do our utmost to support its campaign against trafficking.
Although the cabinet secretary had to speak about the theft of famous paintings and property, my concern is more for crimes of violence, such as those that are perpetrated by the criminals who are involved in the serious organised crime of trafficking.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1101, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on serious organised crime.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
I welcome this opportunity to debate one of the major threats facing Scotland today: serious organised crime. Organised crime impacts on us all. For too long...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
In his letter to the Home Secretary, has the minister referred to the possibility of Scotland retaining all the money that it gets under the 2002 act? I unde...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
My understanding is that the figure is 50 per cent above £17 million per annum. We are obviously happy to discuss the matter. That particular aspect was not ...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
I very much appreciate what the minister has just said, but what will be done differently to persuade young people that there is another way—other than joini...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
The member and I have touched on such matters at hustings and on other occasions. She is aware that some matters are outwith the justice department's silo. T...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
On the effectiveness of Europol in helping to prevent crime in Scotland, is the minister satisfied that the intelligence that he receives from Europol regard...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
I believe so. I met the director general of Europol. I am not aware of any evidence from police officers or organisations in Scotland that appropriate inform...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I am pleased to see that, in 2008, our weekly discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice will continue. I welcome this debate on serious organised cr...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
The member referred to long sentences for serious criminals. Does she see that being balanced by shorter sentences for less serious crimes?
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
I am clear that, in relation to serious organised crime, we need long sentences. My point is that showing criminals that we can hurt them by stripping them o...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the debate. As Pauline McNeill said, this is the first week back, so we have the first justice debate, and another is due next week. I also welcome...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
I am tempted to say that if Margaret Smith comes to some harm in the next few days, we will know who is responsible.In his opening remarks, the Cabinet Secre...
Mike Pringle:
LD
One problem is that often the Mercedes or house is owned not by the drug dealer but by his wife or son. What do we do about that? How do we address that prob...
Bill Aitken:
Con
Mr Pringle highlights what is undoubtedly a real problem, but at some stage the house will have been part of a transaction. In many instances, the house will...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
You should begin to wind up now.
Bill Aitken:
Con
The Mr Bigs of the criminal world need to know that we are after their houses—whether in Spain or in posh areas of Glasgow—and that we are after their cars.I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of around six minutes.
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
Serious organised crime is one of the most difficult issues before our Parliament because it goes right to the basis of our civil society.I begin by going ba...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
The cabinet secretary will remember that, in a wide-ranging contribution to the first major debate on justice matters after last year's election, he acknowle...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I start by saying that I am rather disappointed in the Lib Dem amendment. It does them no favours and it belittles the debate, which is about a very serious ...
Margaret Smith:
LD
In my speech I sought to remind Sandra White and others that in the fight against serious organised crime there is a role not only for specialists but for th...
Sandra White:
SNP
I do not want to know about the Liberal Democrats' manifesto commitments, some of which certainly have not been taken forward. That said, I take the member's...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I support the motion and the amendments. I have no difficulty whatsoever in supporting Margaret Smith's amendment. Indeed, I am very pleased with her amendme...
Stuart McMillan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the debate. I also welcome the Scottish Government's creation of the serious organised crime task force.As each member who has spoken thus far has ...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab):
Lab
I asked to speak in this debate even though the subject is outwith my shadow portfolio, because it means so much to people in my constituency. The debate giv...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I have great pleasure in speaking in the debate because, unlike the subjects of other debates, serious organised crime in Scotland is an issue that resonates...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
The debate has been vital in maintaining the dialogue between elected representatives that is required to tackle an adaptive and constantly evolving problem....
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
The debate has been useful as it has allowed us to consider the issues connected with serious crime and how we might tackle it. There is much in the Governme...
Bill Butler:
Lab
Will the member give way on that point?