Chamber
Plenary, 09 Jan 2008
09 Jan 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Serious Organised Crime
I do not want to know about the Liberal Democrats' manifesto commitments, some of which certainly have not been taken forward. That said, I take the member's point. However, my point is that the amendment belittles this debate. The issue could have been raised in other debates.
For too long, Scotland—and, in particular, Glasgow and the west—has been scarred by the activities of organised gangs that have terrorised the general public and have made huge profits from others' misery. As a result, I welcome not only this debate but the cabinet secretary's recent announcement that he will crack down on the use of taxi firms for money laundering purposes by making it easier for councils to limit the number of private hire cabs.
I also welcome the proposal for legislation to regulate security firms, which, as most of us know, have some very high profile clients. We all recall the conviction last year of James Stevenson, who, as Pauline McNeill and Bill Aitken have pointed out, was sentenced to more than 12 years for his part in money laundering activities, which included the setting up of a taxi firm. Moreover, Tam McGraw, who died last year leaving a fortune estimated at £14 million, laundered money through taxi firms and security companies. We should welcome the length of the sentence imposed on Stevenson as a clear message that we will not tolerate those who participate in organised crime. Indeed, the courts should make a commitment to take such a view in the future, as only through our taking a consistently tough line on sentencing can we hope to deter others.
I also welcome the cabinet secretary's commitment to crack down on the use of tanning salons for money-laundering purposes. I have raised this issue many times over the years, particularly in relation to unmanned salons where unsupervised and uninformed people simply put £1 into a machine. No one checks their age or, indeed, what they get up to, and I assure the chamber that some salons have been closed down because of the unsavoury practices that have taken place in them. I look forward to hearing more on that matter from the cabinet secretary.
By bringing together different agencies and bodies in the fight against organised crime, the serious organised crime task force will be highly effective in achieving our desired aims. For too long, criminals have been able to operate because intelligence on their activities has not been as widely available to other agencies as it might have been. As Bill Butler and others have pointed out, through this platform of co-operation the task force will be in a perfect position to work with its UK counterpart, the Serious Organised Crime Agency, and Europol, to fight and respond to the threat of organised crime on an international level.
As the motion makes clear, more than £17 million has already been recovered through the provisions in the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. However, although that situation should be welcomed and applauded, it can be improved on. In fact, in response to a question on 15 November 2007, the First Minister said that
"we are actively looking at what improvements can be made"
to those provisions and that
"We are also considering ways to increase the value of assets seized."—[Official Report, 15 November 2007; c 3470.]
I welcome both that statement and the cabinet secretary's on-going dialogue with Westminster. In that respect, I wonder whether the cabinet secretary is able to give us some idea of when he will announce what improvements can be made to the 2002 act to ensure further that criminals get the message that we will not tolerate their activities and that they will not benefit from them.
The cabinet secretary also mentioned that the Government is working with several organisations on using recovered assets to help young people throughout the country and on drawing up specific funding proposals to increase available opportunities. I would be grateful if he could provide us with an update on how those plans are progressing. After all, investing in a positive future for our young people is the best guarantee that they will not turn to crime in the first place. Of course, we must ensure that any money for such initiatives makes a real difference to the lives of the people that they target. I am interested in finding out how that will be achieved.
We will debate the legislative consent motion on the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill next week. I hope that the money that will be raised through its provisions and which will be administered by the Big Lottery Fund with guidance from ministers will be used specifically for local initiatives aimed at helping more young people to become involved in activities and projects of interest to them and their community.
By sending out the message that criminals will receive the maximum sentences that are available to the courts and that they will not profit from their activities, we are going down the right road. By coupling that message with the bringing together of the crime agencies to hunt down those criminals, we will take the fight to the criminals who are blighting our communities.
For too long, Scotland—and, in particular, Glasgow and the west—has been scarred by the activities of organised gangs that have terrorised the general public and have made huge profits from others' misery. As a result, I welcome not only this debate but the cabinet secretary's recent announcement that he will crack down on the use of taxi firms for money laundering purposes by making it easier for councils to limit the number of private hire cabs.
I also welcome the proposal for legislation to regulate security firms, which, as most of us know, have some very high profile clients. We all recall the conviction last year of James Stevenson, who, as Pauline McNeill and Bill Aitken have pointed out, was sentenced to more than 12 years for his part in money laundering activities, which included the setting up of a taxi firm. Moreover, Tam McGraw, who died last year leaving a fortune estimated at £14 million, laundered money through taxi firms and security companies. We should welcome the length of the sentence imposed on Stevenson as a clear message that we will not tolerate those who participate in organised crime. Indeed, the courts should make a commitment to take such a view in the future, as only through our taking a consistently tough line on sentencing can we hope to deter others.
I also welcome the cabinet secretary's commitment to crack down on the use of tanning salons for money-laundering purposes. I have raised this issue many times over the years, particularly in relation to unmanned salons where unsupervised and uninformed people simply put £1 into a machine. No one checks their age or, indeed, what they get up to, and I assure the chamber that some salons have been closed down because of the unsavoury practices that have taken place in them. I look forward to hearing more on that matter from the cabinet secretary.
By bringing together different agencies and bodies in the fight against organised crime, the serious organised crime task force will be highly effective in achieving our desired aims. For too long, criminals have been able to operate because intelligence on their activities has not been as widely available to other agencies as it might have been. As Bill Butler and others have pointed out, through this platform of co-operation the task force will be in a perfect position to work with its UK counterpart, the Serious Organised Crime Agency, and Europol, to fight and respond to the threat of organised crime on an international level.
As the motion makes clear, more than £17 million has already been recovered through the provisions in the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. However, although that situation should be welcomed and applauded, it can be improved on. In fact, in response to a question on 15 November 2007, the First Minister said that
"we are actively looking at what improvements can be made"
to those provisions and that
"We are also considering ways to increase the value of assets seized."—[Official Report, 15 November 2007; c 3470.]
I welcome both that statement and the cabinet secretary's on-going dialogue with Westminster. In that respect, I wonder whether the cabinet secretary is able to give us some idea of when he will announce what improvements can be made to the 2002 act to ensure further that criminals get the message that we will not tolerate their activities and that they will not benefit from them.
The cabinet secretary also mentioned that the Government is working with several organisations on using recovered assets to help young people throughout the country and on drawing up specific funding proposals to increase available opportunities. I would be grateful if he could provide us with an update on how those plans are progressing. After all, investing in a positive future for our young people is the best guarantee that they will not turn to crime in the first place. Of course, we must ensure that any money for such initiatives makes a real difference to the lives of the people that they target. I am interested in finding out how that will be achieved.
We will debate the legislative consent motion on the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill next week. I hope that the money that will be raised through its provisions and which will be administered by the Big Lottery Fund with guidance from ministers will be used specifically for local initiatives aimed at helping more young people to become involved in activities and projects of interest to them and their community.
By sending out the message that criminals will receive the maximum sentences that are available to the courts and that they will not profit from their activities, we are going down the right road. By coupling that message with the bringing together of the crime agencies to hunt down those criminals, we will take the fight to the criminals who are blighting our communities.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1101, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on serious organised crime.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
I welcome this opportunity to debate one of the major threats facing Scotland today: serious organised crime. Organised crime impacts on us all. For too long...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
In his letter to the Home Secretary, has the minister referred to the possibility of Scotland retaining all the money that it gets under the 2002 act? I unde...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
My understanding is that the figure is 50 per cent above £17 million per annum. We are obviously happy to discuss the matter. That particular aspect was not ...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
I very much appreciate what the minister has just said, but what will be done differently to persuade young people that there is another way—other than joini...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
The member and I have touched on such matters at hustings and on other occasions. She is aware that some matters are outwith the justice department's silo. T...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
On the effectiveness of Europol in helping to prevent crime in Scotland, is the minister satisfied that the intelligence that he receives from Europol regard...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
I believe so. I met the director general of Europol. I am not aware of any evidence from police officers or organisations in Scotland that appropriate inform...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I am pleased to see that, in 2008, our weekly discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice will continue. I welcome this debate on serious organised cr...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
The member referred to long sentences for serious criminals. Does she see that being balanced by shorter sentences for less serious crimes?
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
I am clear that, in relation to serious organised crime, we need long sentences. My point is that showing criminals that we can hurt them by stripping them o...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the debate. As Pauline McNeill said, this is the first week back, so we have the first justice debate, and another is due next week. I also welcome...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
I am tempted to say that if Margaret Smith comes to some harm in the next few days, we will know who is responsible.In his opening remarks, the Cabinet Secre...
Mike Pringle:
LD
One problem is that often the Mercedes or house is owned not by the drug dealer but by his wife or son. What do we do about that? How do we address that prob...
Bill Aitken:
Con
Mr Pringle highlights what is undoubtedly a real problem, but at some stage the house will have been part of a transaction. In many instances, the house will...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
You should begin to wind up now.
Bill Aitken:
Con
The Mr Bigs of the criminal world need to know that we are after their houses—whether in Spain or in posh areas of Glasgow—and that we are after their cars.I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of around six minutes.
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
Serious organised crime is one of the most difficult issues before our Parliament because it goes right to the basis of our civil society.I begin by going ba...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
The cabinet secretary will remember that, in a wide-ranging contribution to the first major debate on justice matters after last year's election, he acknowle...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I start by saying that I am rather disappointed in the Lib Dem amendment. It does them no favours and it belittles the debate, which is about a very serious ...
Margaret Smith:
LD
In my speech I sought to remind Sandra White and others that in the fight against serious organised crime there is a role not only for specialists but for th...
Sandra White:
SNP
I do not want to know about the Liberal Democrats' manifesto commitments, some of which certainly have not been taken forward. That said, I take the member's...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I support the motion and the amendments. I have no difficulty whatsoever in supporting Margaret Smith's amendment. Indeed, I am very pleased with her amendme...
Stuart McMillan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the debate. I also welcome the Scottish Government's creation of the serious organised crime task force.As each member who has spoken thus far has ...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab):
Lab
I asked to speak in this debate even though the subject is outwith my shadow portfolio, because it means so much to people in my constituency. The debate giv...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I have great pleasure in speaking in the debate because, unlike the subjects of other debates, serious organised crime in Scotland is an issue that resonates...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
The debate has been vital in maintaining the dialogue between elected representatives that is required to tackle an adaptive and constantly evolving problem....
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
The debate has been useful as it has allowed us to consider the issues connected with serious crime and how we might tackle it. There is much in the Governme...
Bill Butler:
Lab
Will the member give way on that point?