Chamber
Plenary, 09 Jan 2008
09 Jan 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Serious Organised Crime
I welcome the debate. As Pauline McNeill said, this is the first week back, so we have the first justice debate, and another is due next week. I also welcome the Government's pledged commitment to tackle serious organised crime and to progress the previous Executive's work on that.
Many people may think of serious organised crime as being a far cry from their everyday lives, but the sad truth is that the activities of organised criminal operations and gangs have wide-ranging and devastating impacts on individuals, communities and businesses throughout Scotland. Organised criminals are involved in a wide range of activities that damage our country, from money laundering that is disguised as legitimate business to drug dealing, people trafficking and the sex industry.
Serious organised crime is a global issue, as the cabinet secretary made clear. It respects no national boundaries. The use of technologies and methods of communication means that criminals from Scotland operate around the world. Pauline McNeill made such points clearly.
It is estimated that serious organised crime costs the UK as a whole upwards of £20 billion every year. Legitimate businesses cannot compete with criminals who do not pay minimum wages, VAT or tax.
Serious organised criminals are involved predominantly in the sale of illegal drugs. That trade is built on the backs of the poorest and most vulnerable sections of our society. Gangsters make millions of pounds of profits by dealing in the human misery of the drugs trade, which in 2006 resulted in 421 people dying, 16,000 children being brought up with drug-addicted parents and countless communities throughout Scotland living with the consequences of drug-related crime. Organised criminals are also involved in counterfeiting goods, smuggling alcohol, credit card fraud and identity theft, all of which have a direct impact on our constituents, and in the despicable and highly profitable business of human trafficking—usually the trafficking of young women to be abused in the sex industry. It is alarming that 13.5 per cent of people trafficking in the UK takes place in Scotland. That should be compared with the 10 per cent of overall crime that takes place here. It is now thought that more than 4,000 women a year are brought to Scotland against their will by traffickers. Many of those women are forced to work in the sex industry in saunas and private flats and as escorts.
Amnesty International has raised concerns with all of us about the identification of trafficking victims and the workings of the national referral mechanism. It is concerned that victims are being regarded as illegal immigrants and are being deported, and that there is the risk of retrafficking. Victims are, understandably, reticent as a result of fear of reprisals from traffickers or the shame of having been involved in the sex trade. I hope that the minister will agree to meet Amnesty International to discuss its concerns and investigate the adoption of mandatory procedures for the identification and referral of victims.
I, too, commend the police and the national and international enforcement agencies for their on-going hard work and dedication; for the significant improvements in tackling organised crime that they have made; and for their increased success in seizing drugs and illegally obtained cash and assets in Scotland in recent years. In the past, too many criminals have been able to keep the money that they have dishonestly acquired. It is vital that we continue to seize increasing amounts of that capital in order to strengthen public confidence in the operation of the justice system and ensure that we send a clear message to current and future generations that crime does not pay. We therefore welcome the approach that the cabinet secretary has outlined of extending time limits and reducing cash-seizure thresholds. Removing the assets of criminals not only prevents them from financing further illegal enterprises but stops them becoming the wrong kind of role models for Scotland's young people.
Fighting serious organised crime is a highly complex business that requires a range of specialists, from forensic accountants to information technology specialists. Organisations such as the Scottish Crime and Drug Enforcement Agency and the Crown Office must be equipped with the people and resources that they need to combat an international problem. There is also a need for more police in our communities to pick up intelligence about activities on the ground, whether that is drug dealing or money laundering through nail bars, taxi firms or whatever. That is why it is essential that the Scottish National Party Government holds to its manifesto commitment to deliver 1,000 more police officers into our communities.
In government, the Liberal Democrats were involved in the creation of the Scottish Crime and Drug Enforcement Agency, which is committed to tackling serious organised crime in all its forms. That agency has enjoyed considerable success since it was established. Its activity in 2006-07 resulted in the seizure of drugs with a street value of £7.5 million—including more than £4 million from class A drugs—and the arrest of 190 people. James Stevenson was sentenced to more than 12 years in prison. The agency's e-crime unit has successfully identified and arrested individuals who have attempted to use the internet as a means to target children for sexual purposes, and the agency provides vital assistance to the witnesses of crimes. It also works to educate children, young people and statutory and voluntary bodies about drugs issues. However, concerns have already been raised within the SCDEA, particularly by Graeme Pearson, about decision making and how it interfaces with the Scottish Police Services Authority. There have also been problems with the recruitment of officers. Obviously, there have been different views within local forces about the value and impact of seconding officers, but now that the agency can recruit directly, it is essential that it is supported in doing so effectively. Its annual report clearly states:
"The Agency continues to operate under establishment and is aware that this has a detrimental impact on how business is conducted."
We seek assurances that the Government will closely monitor that issue. We also echo the welcome that Pauline McNeill and others have given to the agency's new director, Gordon Meldrum.
We supported the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, which has led to the recovery of £17 million in illegally obtained money and assets from individuals who have been involved in crime. It is only right that that money is recycled back into the very communities that the individuals have blighted so badly. In my constituency in Edinburgh, that has indeed been the case. There has been a campaign to encourage members of the public to come forward with information about local drug dealers. There has also been youth outreach work, improvements to leisure facilities, the introduction of closed-circuit television surveillance vehicles, and new resources for cleaning up graffiti. However, I welcome the cabinet secretary's point that some of the resources will go towards employing the specialists whom we need so that we can redouble our efforts and confiscate even more cash and assets in the future.
We have a record in government of taking effective action to tackle serious organised crime, so we wish the new Government well with the serious organised crime task force, which is in its early days. I hope that it will be an effective force for further action on the issue. It needs to work with organisations outside the UK to tackle the increasingly internationalised crime networks and prevent the flow of drugs into Scotland, and it needs to be able to achieve its aims of tackling serious crime more effectively through increased co-operation. We welcome the increased links with Europol and others.
A measure that would assist co-operation among the SCDEA, the Scottish Forensic Science Service, the Serious Organised Crime Agency and the enforcement arm of HM Revenue and Customs is delivery of the Scottish crime campus at Gartcosh. The funding and the political will for the campus have been in place, but there have been delays. I ask the Lord Advocate to update us on that. I hope that she will assure us that progress is being made and that there is a timetable attached to that.
The Scottish Government must also be willing to co-operate and to show that it can work with the UK Government on matters of importance to Scotland such as tackling serious organised crime. Whether in relation to the British Transport Police or air-guns, the cabinet secretary has certainly been quite effective over the past few weeks in falling out with Westminster, but tackling serious organised crime is one area of joint endeavour where that cannot be allowed to happen. I was reassured by his comments today about the letter that he sent to the Home Secretary.
Today's debate should send a clear message that the Parliament and the Government are committed to the fight against serious organised crime. Like most members, I do not think for one second that the criminals whom we are talking about today are sitting by their computer screens and listening to my exceptionally good speech—I thought that it was exceptionally good, but never mind. The most effective message that we can send them is to have the resources available, the structures in place and the individuals in post to ensure that they are harried and harried again until their networks of misery are destroyed.
I move amendment S3M-1101.2, to insert at end:
"but regrets the Scottish Government's continued failure to implement the SNP's election promise of 1,000 extra police officers, which would contribute to the fight against serious crime."
Many people may think of serious organised crime as being a far cry from their everyday lives, but the sad truth is that the activities of organised criminal operations and gangs have wide-ranging and devastating impacts on individuals, communities and businesses throughout Scotland. Organised criminals are involved in a wide range of activities that damage our country, from money laundering that is disguised as legitimate business to drug dealing, people trafficking and the sex industry.
Serious organised crime is a global issue, as the cabinet secretary made clear. It respects no national boundaries. The use of technologies and methods of communication means that criminals from Scotland operate around the world. Pauline McNeill made such points clearly.
It is estimated that serious organised crime costs the UK as a whole upwards of £20 billion every year. Legitimate businesses cannot compete with criminals who do not pay minimum wages, VAT or tax.
Serious organised criminals are involved predominantly in the sale of illegal drugs. That trade is built on the backs of the poorest and most vulnerable sections of our society. Gangsters make millions of pounds of profits by dealing in the human misery of the drugs trade, which in 2006 resulted in 421 people dying, 16,000 children being brought up with drug-addicted parents and countless communities throughout Scotland living with the consequences of drug-related crime. Organised criminals are also involved in counterfeiting goods, smuggling alcohol, credit card fraud and identity theft, all of which have a direct impact on our constituents, and in the despicable and highly profitable business of human trafficking—usually the trafficking of young women to be abused in the sex industry. It is alarming that 13.5 per cent of people trafficking in the UK takes place in Scotland. That should be compared with the 10 per cent of overall crime that takes place here. It is now thought that more than 4,000 women a year are brought to Scotland against their will by traffickers. Many of those women are forced to work in the sex industry in saunas and private flats and as escorts.
Amnesty International has raised concerns with all of us about the identification of trafficking victims and the workings of the national referral mechanism. It is concerned that victims are being regarded as illegal immigrants and are being deported, and that there is the risk of retrafficking. Victims are, understandably, reticent as a result of fear of reprisals from traffickers or the shame of having been involved in the sex trade. I hope that the minister will agree to meet Amnesty International to discuss its concerns and investigate the adoption of mandatory procedures for the identification and referral of victims.
I, too, commend the police and the national and international enforcement agencies for their on-going hard work and dedication; for the significant improvements in tackling organised crime that they have made; and for their increased success in seizing drugs and illegally obtained cash and assets in Scotland in recent years. In the past, too many criminals have been able to keep the money that they have dishonestly acquired. It is vital that we continue to seize increasing amounts of that capital in order to strengthen public confidence in the operation of the justice system and ensure that we send a clear message to current and future generations that crime does not pay. We therefore welcome the approach that the cabinet secretary has outlined of extending time limits and reducing cash-seizure thresholds. Removing the assets of criminals not only prevents them from financing further illegal enterprises but stops them becoming the wrong kind of role models for Scotland's young people.
Fighting serious organised crime is a highly complex business that requires a range of specialists, from forensic accountants to information technology specialists. Organisations such as the Scottish Crime and Drug Enforcement Agency and the Crown Office must be equipped with the people and resources that they need to combat an international problem. There is also a need for more police in our communities to pick up intelligence about activities on the ground, whether that is drug dealing or money laundering through nail bars, taxi firms or whatever. That is why it is essential that the Scottish National Party Government holds to its manifesto commitment to deliver 1,000 more police officers into our communities.
In government, the Liberal Democrats were involved in the creation of the Scottish Crime and Drug Enforcement Agency, which is committed to tackling serious organised crime in all its forms. That agency has enjoyed considerable success since it was established. Its activity in 2006-07 resulted in the seizure of drugs with a street value of £7.5 million—including more than £4 million from class A drugs—and the arrest of 190 people. James Stevenson was sentenced to more than 12 years in prison. The agency's e-crime unit has successfully identified and arrested individuals who have attempted to use the internet as a means to target children for sexual purposes, and the agency provides vital assistance to the witnesses of crimes. It also works to educate children, young people and statutory and voluntary bodies about drugs issues. However, concerns have already been raised within the SCDEA, particularly by Graeme Pearson, about decision making and how it interfaces with the Scottish Police Services Authority. There have also been problems with the recruitment of officers. Obviously, there have been different views within local forces about the value and impact of seconding officers, but now that the agency can recruit directly, it is essential that it is supported in doing so effectively. Its annual report clearly states:
"The Agency continues to operate under establishment and is aware that this has a detrimental impact on how business is conducted."
We seek assurances that the Government will closely monitor that issue. We also echo the welcome that Pauline McNeill and others have given to the agency's new director, Gordon Meldrum.
We supported the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, which has led to the recovery of £17 million in illegally obtained money and assets from individuals who have been involved in crime. It is only right that that money is recycled back into the very communities that the individuals have blighted so badly. In my constituency in Edinburgh, that has indeed been the case. There has been a campaign to encourage members of the public to come forward with information about local drug dealers. There has also been youth outreach work, improvements to leisure facilities, the introduction of closed-circuit television surveillance vehicles, and new resources for cleaning up graffiti. However, I welcome the cabinet secretary's point that some of the resources will go towards employing the specialists whom we need so that we can redouble our efforts and confiscate even more cash and assets in the future.
We have a record in government of taking effective action to tackle serious organised crime, so we wish the new Government well with the serious organised crime task force, which is in its early days. I hope that it will be an effective force for further action on the issue. It needs to work with organisations outside the UK to tackle the increasingly internationalised crime networks and prevent the flow of drugs into Scotland, and it needs to be able to achieve its aims of tackling serious crime more effectively through increased co-operation. We welcome the increased links with Europol and others.
A measure that would assist co-operation among the SCDEA, the Scottish Forensic Science Service, the Serious Organised Crime Agency and the enforcement arm of HM Revenue and Customs is delivery of the Scottish crime campus at Gartcosh. The funding and the political will for the campus have been in place, but there have been delays. I ask the Lord Advocate to update us on that. I hope that she will assure us that progress is being made and that there is a timetable attached to that.
The Scottish Government must also be willing to co-operate and to show that it can work with the UK Government on matters of importance to Scotland such as tackling serious organised crime. Whether in relation to the British Transport Police or air-guns, the cabinet secretary has certainly been quite effective over the past few weeks in falling out with Westminster, but tackling serious organised crime is one area of joint endeavour where that cannot be allowed to happen. I was reassured by his comments today about the letter that he sent to the Home Secretary.
Today's debate should send a clear message that the Parliament and the Government are committed to the fight against serious organised crime. Like most members, I do not think for one second that the criminals whom we are talking about today are sitting by their computer screens and listening to my exceptionally good speech—I thought that it was exceptionally good, but never mind. The most effective message that we can send them is to have the resources available, the structures in place and the individuals in post to ensure that they are harried and harried again until their networks of misery are destroyed.
I move amendment S3M-1101.2, to insert at end:
"but regrets the Scottish Government's continued failure to implement the SNP's election promise of 1,000 extra police officers, which would contribute to the fight against serious crime."
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1101, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on serious organised crime.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
I welcome this opportunity to debate one of the major threats facing Scotland today: serious organised crime. Organised crime impacts on us all. For too long...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
In his letter to the Home Secretary, has the minister referred to the possibility of Scotland retaining all the money that it gets under the 2002 act? I unde...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
My understanding is that the figure is 50 per cent above £17 million per annum. We are obviously happy to discuss the matter. That particular aspect was not ...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
I very much appreciate what the minister has just said, but what will be done differently to persuade young people that there is another way—other than joini...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
The member and I have touched on such matters at hustings and on other occasions. She is aware that some matters are outwith the justice department's silo. T...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
On the effectiveness of Europol in helping to prevent crime in Scotland, is the minister satisfied that the intelligence that he receives from Europol regard...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
I believe so. I met the director general of Europol. I am not aware of any evidence from police officers or organisations in Scotland that appropriate inform...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I am pleased to see that, in 2008, our weekly discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice will continue. I welcome this debate on serious organised cr...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
The member referred to long sentences for serious criminals. Does she see that being balanced by shorter sentences for less serious crimes?
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
I am clear that, in relation to serious organised crime, we need long sentences. My point is that showing criminals that we can hurt them by stripping them o...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the debate. As Pauline McNeill said, this is the first week back, so we have the first justice debate, and another is due next week. I also welcome...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
I am tempted to say that if Margaret Smith comes to some harm in the next few days, we will know who is responsible.In his opening remarks, the Cabinet Secre...
Mike Pringle:
LD
One problem is that often the Mercedes or house is owned not by the drug dealer but by his wife or son. What do we do about that? How do we address that prob...
Bill Aitken:
Con
Mr Pringle highlights what is undoubtedly a real problem, but at some stage the house will have been part of a transaction. In many instances, the house will...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
You should begin to wind up now.
Bill Aitken:
Con
The Mr Bigs of the criminal world need to know that we are after their houses—whether in Spain or in posh areas of Glasgow—and that we are after their cars.I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of around six minutes.
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
Serious organised crime is one of the most difficult issues before our Parliament because it goes right to the basis of our civil society.I begin by going ba...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
The cabinet secretary will remember that, in a wide-ranging contribution to the first major debate on justice matters after last year's election, he acknowle...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I start by saying that I am rather disappointed in the Lib Dem amendment. It does them no favours and it belittles the debate, which is about a very serious ...
Margaret Smith:
LD
In my speech I sought to remind Sandra White and others that in the fight against serious organised crime there is a role not only for specialists but for th...
Sandra White:
SNP
I do not want to know about the Liberal Democrats' manifesto commitments, some of which certainly have not been taken forward. That said, I take the member's...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I support the motion and the amendments. I have no difficulty whatsoever in supporting Margaret Smith's amendment. Indeed, I am very pleased with her amendme...
Stuart McMillan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the debate. I also welcome the Scottish Government's creation of the serious organised crime task force.As each member who has spoken thus far has ...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab):
Lab
I asked to speak in this debate even though the subject is outwith my shadow portfolio, because it means so much to people in my constituency. The debate giv...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I have great pleasure in speaking in the debate because, unlike the subjects of other debates, serious organised crime in Scotland is an issue that resonates...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
The debate has been vital in maintaining the dialogue between elected representatives that is required to tackle an adaptive and constantly evolving problem....
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
The debate has been useful as it has allowed us to consider the issues connected with serious crime and how we might tackle it. There is much in the Governme...
Bill Butler:
Lab
Will the member give way on that point?