Chamber
Plenary, 09 Jan 2008
09 Jan 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Serious Organised Crime
The member and I have touched on such matters at hustings and on other occasions. She is aware that some matters are outwith the justice department's silo. The issue is one of getting youngsters into employment. In Scotland, the maxim that the devil finds work for idle hands applies. As the member will be aware, we are anxious to reinvest the money, and not simply in sporting activities, although a great deal of benefit comes from sporting activities and from providing facilities for youngsters who, in many instances, do not have many alternatives and whose time is spent consuming alcohol and getting up to low-level mischief, or indeed getting lured into serious organised crime.
There is no one particular way of ensuring that alternatives are available, but the member can rest assured that we recognise that, across Government, we must tackle hopelessness and despair, we must try to get people into work and we must use the proceeds of crime that we recover to make communities better places and to let our youngsters be all that they can be. We must also use the proceeds of crime to redress the balance in those areas where virtually no facilities are available to children—and where it is therefore of no surprise that they get up to mischief.
We will introduce proposals to strengthen legislation and further frustrate and disrupt serious and organised crime. We are neither reluctant to consider how other countries approach the problem nor to learn from their approaches. We are therefore looking to follow the examples of Ireland and Canada in creating a new offence of being involved in or directing serious crime. That sends a strong message to criminals who work together that they will be caught and suitably punished.
We must also support legitimate business. We are all familiar with the stories of criminals infiltrating the private security industry, which has shaped our view of that industry and of the people who work in it. As a result of regulation that came into force in November last year, we are already seeing rogues move out. However, we need to ensure that they do not now move on to other sectors, damaging the reputation of legitimate businesses and threatening the livelihoods of honest, hard-working people.
Let us take the example of taxi firms. Most taxi companies are fully law abiding, but we have all heard anecdotes about some taxi firms being used as a front for criminality, including money laundering. As I know from my own constituents and others, those illegal activities impact on legitimate business. Prices are undercut and companies go out of business, or the public simply lose faith in the integrity of businesses.
We cannot allow those activities to continue. We will take firm action to cut off business opportunities for illegal groups while supporting legitimate business to thrive in our communities. We will not hesitate to legislate to regulate business if need be. That is something that many legitimate taxi firms support, as it will safeguard their integrity and custom.
Scotland must also play a role on the world stage. I was in The Hague recently to learn more about Europol. An SCDEA officer is part of the UK liaison team at Europol, as is a member of the Crown Office. That direct link between Scotland and Europol has shown fantastic results. Although liaison with Europol has resulted in operational benefits and successes, work is on-going further to improve the interaction between Scotland and Europe and to make better use of the European intelligence system and the ability to share relevant data across national boundaries. I will also work with the Scottish police service to raise awareness of the role that Europol can play in supporting Scottish law enforcement and of the ways in which Scotland can help our partners anywhere to tackle serious organised crime.
There is no one particular way of ensuring that alternatives are available, but the member can rest assured that we recognise that, across Government, we must tackle hopelessness and despair, we must try to get people into work and we must use the proceeds of crime that we recover to make communities better places and to let our youngsters be all that they can be. We must also use the proceeds of crime to redress the balance in those areas where virtually no facilities are available to children—and where it is therefore of no surprise that they get up to mischief.
We will introduce proposals to strengthen legislation and further frustrate and disrupt serious and organised crime. We are neither reluctant to consider how other countries approach the problem nor to learn from their approaches. We are therefore looking to follow the examples of Ireland and Canada in creating a new offence of being involved in or directing serious crime. That sends a strong message to criminals who work together that they will be caught and suitably punished.
We must also support legitimate business. We are all familiar with the stories of criminals infiltrating the private security industry, which has shaped our view of that industry and of the people who work in it. As a result of regulation that came into force in November last year, we are already seeing rogues move out. However, we need to ensure that they do not now move on to other sectors, damaging the reputation of legitimate businesses and threatening the livelihoods of honest, hard-working people.
Let us take the example of taxi firms. Most taxi companies are fully law abiding, but we have all heard anecdotes about some taxi firms being used as a front for criminality, including money laundering. As I know from my own constituents and others, those illegal activities impact on legitimate business. Prices are undercut and companies go out of business, or the public simply lose faith in the integrity of businesses.
We cannot allow those activities to continue. We will take firm action to cut off business opportunities for illegal groups while supporting legitimate business to thrive in our communities. We will not hesitate to legislate to regulate business if need be. That is something that many legitimate taxi firms support, as it will safeguard their integrity and custom.
Scotland must also play a role on the world stage. I was in The Hague recently to learn more about Europol. An SCDEA officer is part of the UK liaison team at Europol, as is a member of the Crown Office. That direct link between Scotland and Europol has shown fantastic results. Although liaison with Europol has resulted in operational benefits and successes, work is on-going further to improve the interaction between Scotland and Europe and to make better use of the European intelligence system and the ability to share relevant data across national boundaries. I will also work with the Scottish police service to raise awareness of the role that Europol can play in supporting Scottish law enforcement and of the ways in which Scotland can help our partners anywhere to tackle serious organised crime.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1101, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on serious organised crime.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
I welcome this opportunity to debate one of the major threats facing Scotland today: serious organised crime. Organised crime impacts on us all. For too long...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
In his letter to the Home Secretary, has the minister referred to the possibility of Scotland retaining all the money that it gets under the 2002 act? I unde...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
My understanding is that the figure is 50 per cent above £17 million per annum. We are obviously happy to discuss the matter. That particular aspect was not ...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
I very much appreciate what the minister has just said, but what will be done differently to persuade young people that there is another way—other than joini...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
The member and I have touched on such matters at hustings and on other occasions. She is aware that some matters are outwith the justice department's silo. T...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
On the effectiveness of Europol in helping to prevent crime in Scotland, is the minister satisfied that the intelligence that he receives from Europol regard...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
I believe so. I met the director general of Europol. I am not aware of any evidence from police officers or organisations in Scotland that appropriate inform...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I am pleased to see that, in 2008, our weekly discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice will continue. I welcome this debate on serious organised cr...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
The member referred to long sentences for serious criminals. Does she see that being balanced by shorter sentences for less serious crimes?
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
I am clear that, in relation to serious organised crime, we need long sentences. My point is that showing criminals that we can hurt them by stripping them o...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the debate. As Pauline McNeill said, this is the first week back, so we have the first justice debate, and another is due next week. I also welcome...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
I am tempted to say that if Margaret Smith comes to some harm in the next few days, we will know who is responsible.In his opening remarks, the Cabinet Secre...
Mike Pringle:
LD
One problem is that often the Mercedes or house is owned not by the drug dealer but by his wife or son. What do we do about that? How do we address that prob...
Bill Aitken:
Con
Mr Pringle highlights what is undoubtedly a real problem, but at some stage the house will have been part of a transaction. In many instances, the house will...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
You should begin to wind up now.
Bill Aitken:
Con
The Mr Bigs of the criminal world need to know that we are after their houses—whether in Spain or in posh areas of Glasgow—and that we are after their cars.I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of around six minutes.
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
Serious organised crime is one of the most difficult issues before our Parliament because it goes right to the basis of our civil society.I begin by going ba...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
The cabinet secretary will remember that, in a wide-ranging contribution to the first major debate on justice matters after last year's election, he acknowle...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I start by saying that I am rather disappointed in the Lib Dem amendment. It does them no favours and it belittles the debate, which is about a very serious ...
Margaret Smith:
LD
In my speech I sought to remind Sandra White and others that in the fight against serious organised crime there is a role not only for specialists but for th...
Sandra White:
SNP
I do not want to know about the Liberal Democrats' manifesto commitments, some of which certainly have not been taken forward. That said, I take the member's...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I support the motion and the amendments. I have no difficulty whatsoever in supporting Margaret Smith's amendment. Indeed, I am very pleased with her amendme...
Stuart McMillan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the debate. I also welcome the Scottish Government's creation of the serious organised crime task force.As each member who has spoken thus far has ...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab):
Lab
I asked to speak in this debate even though the subject is outwith my shadow portfolio, because it means so much to people in my constituency. The debate giv...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I have great pleasure in speaking in the debate because, unlike the subjects of other debates, serious organised crime in Scotland is an issue that resonates...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
The debate has been vital in maintaining the dialogue between elected representatives that is required to tackle an adaptive and constantly evolving problem....
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
The debate has been useful as it has allowed us to consider the issues connected with serious crime and how we might tackle it. There is much in the Governme...
Bill Butler:
Lab
Will the member give way on that point?