Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
13
Parties on record
2,355,091
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,355,091 contributions in session S6, 17 Apr 2026 – 17 May 2026. Latest 30 days: 148. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 14 May 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Plenary, 15 Nov 2007

15 Nov 2007 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Scottish Legal Services Market
No. Mr Whitton will be relieved to learn that I am saying that we should expand the market and bring in more business. As a good public relations man, he should realise that that does not necessarily mean that the per capita fee will increase because, if there is a bigger volume of customers, more money will come in. I am sure that he would applaud that.

We have great variety within the Scottish legal profession—from the small high street solicitors in country towns to the large, almost multinational conglomerates in the cities of Edinburgh and Glasgow. Against that background, we need to consider how our legal profession needs to change. To do that, we should also consider what we expect of legal practitioners. We naturally expect integrity. Also, they should always act in the client's interests, confidentiality is vital and practitioners should always be available.

Any alternative structure must not move away from those basic tenets and I am sure that no one would wish it to. I accept that it is early days for the debate but I am a little bit worried that, if we are to have alternative business structures that enable non-legal practitioners to play a role in legal firms, ideas that other people might wish to introduce at some stage might not be consistent with some of those tenets, particularly confidentiality. We must consider that.

To some extent, our discussions have been pre-empted by the fact that the UK Legal Services Act 2007 has been through the parliamentary process down south. Like every other piece of legislation, parts of that act are eminently sensible and others are a little bit questionable but, in general, it was not a bad piece of legislation. We would have broadly welcomed the act had it applied in Scotland as, indeed, we would broadly welcome changes that may come about here. However, although we recognise that the increased flexibility that the act allows is of benefit, the down side is that the legal services board will be appointed by the Lord Chancellor as an oversight regulator. That puts me on inquiry as to whether, if we were to implement a similar structure in Scotland—obviously with an august body other than the Lord Chancellor involved—there might be some interference in the legal profession's independence. We would have to oppose that.

Change that is imposed upon one is hard to take, but change in the legal services market is necessary. The way in which the Scottish legal profession has recognised the necessity of change has been encouraging. Although it is not committing itself to any specific direction at this stage and the matter is one for consultation, the legal profession is due considerable praise for the way in which it has adapted. It is to be congratulated on making a virtue of the necessity of proceeding as the Parliament would wish it to proceed. However, if some members of the profession think that there are threats, I stress the opportunities of attracting further business from previously untapped markets.

Scottish lawyers have an excellent reputation. Members of the Law Society, such as Douglas Mill, have contributed to the International Institute of Law Association Chief Executives. That is indicative of the way in which Scots lawyers are regarded elsewhere. Other distinguished members of the Law Society staff have played international roles, which is to be encouraged.

As the process of change continues, I have little fear that there will be anything other than a genuine attempt to recognise the changing business world in which we all—not only the legal profession—operate and that what will emerge at the end will be eminently sensible and totally acceptable to the Parliament. It is early days and we need to think everything through. We do not wish to rock a particularly stable boat that has served Scotland well over generations and centuries. However, alternative business structures must be considered closely.

Sometimes, consumers feel that there is great duplication of services. For example, a lawyer is obviously necessary in the purchase of a house, as is a surveyor. Sometimes, a financial adviser is also necessary to fix the mortgage and the financial payments that have to be made. The public asks why that cannot all be done under one roof, which is a difficult question to answer satisfactorily. We must consider to what extent alternative business structures can resolve the public's disquiet, if not unease, at being asked to pay fees to three or four individual businesses when doing everything under one roof would be cheaper and would provide a more cohesive service.

I am confident that this debate is going in the right direction. There is unanimous will in the chamber to ensure that whatever emerges at the end of the day will be acceptable to the people of Scotland and to those who work in the legal profession and, indeed, will satisfy the differing political approaches that those in the Parliament inevitably take. As a result, I do not think that there is anything in the motion that should divide the chamber.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson): NPA
Good morning. The first item of business today is a debate on motion S3M-847, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on competition, regulation and business structu...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill): SNP
I appreciate that the level of excitement about today's debate is not quite on all fours with the anticipation for Saturday's 5 pm kick-off at Hampden Park, ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab
The Law Society of Scotland has suggested that, in its assumptions about the Scottish legal system, the Consumers Association made a number of errors, which ...
Kenny MacAskill: SNP
We have been in regular contact with the OFT. We have always been at pains to point out that we accept the need for consumers' rights to be preserved and pro...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab): Lab
I note that at your request, Presiding Officer, the minister extended his speech. I hope that you do not receive a fee note for that, given that he previousl...
Kenny MacAskill: SNP
I intervene at Mr Martin's request. We accept that although the Law Society and the Faculty of Advocates each perform a pivotal role for their professions, t...
Paul Martin: Lab
I welcome that commitment from the cabinet secretary and agree with that way forward.A number of key issues are worth raising today, some of which were menti...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
I call Bill Aitken. Mr Aitken, as you have picked up, you basically have as long as you like.
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): Con
Gee, thanks.The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and I have exchanged some harsh words this week, but he will no doubt be relieved to learn that that is highly ...
David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab): Lab
Okay, so the legal profession contributes £1.2 billion to the Scottish economy, but is Bill Aitken saying that legal fees should go up instead of some way be...
Bill Aitken: Con
No. Mr Whitton will be relieved to learn that I am saying that we should expand the market and bring in more business. As a good public relations man, he sho...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
I now call Mike Pringle, to whom the instructions that I gave Mr Aitken also apply.
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD): LD
That is probably a first.Although this subject is important, the English 2007 act that covers these issues does not become effective until 2011, so we are di...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I congratulate the Cabinet Secretary for Justice on the motion and Pauline McNeill on her amendment. The Scottish Government is clearly attempting to develop...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): Lab
When we are debating legal structures, it is important that we focus on the people who require access to the legal system. Their needs must inform our decisi...
Kenny MacAskill: SNP
I am grateful for the points made about civil legal aid. The Government's position has always been that we are happy to provide facilities for civil legal ai...
Rhoda Grant: Lab
I understand the minister's point, but we have to consider the consumer—the person who needs the service. If they are saying that they are unable to access s...
Stuart McMillan (West of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I am sure that many members in the chamber are as delighted as I am at being dragooned into being here this morning.Scotland has a unique situation regarding...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): Lab
Excuse me, Mr McMillan.I do not know how many times I have to say this to members, but phones have to be switched off. Off.
Stuart McMillan: SNP
Of course, funding problems are not solely related to community law centres. The Scottish Legal Aid Board's legal funds have been significantly drained thank...
David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab): Lab
I speak to the amendment in the name of my colleague Pauline McNeill, with particular emphasis on widening choice and on easier access to more affordable leg...
Kenny MacAskill: SNP
No, they have not. What the member says seems rather to contradict Mr Martin's points. Is Mr Whitton telling the chamber that he supports Tesco law?
David Whitton: Lab
I support the move to make the law more affordable and more accessible to ordinary people in the street. One of the reasons why people want to introduce what...
Aileen Campbell (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Like previous speakers, I welcome the debate. It gives the Scottish Government the opportunity to respond to the super-complaint from the consumer group Whic...
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP): SNP
In the context of an extensive debate, I will address one specific issue that has not been mentioned much—advocates. The argument is made that it is uneconom...
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): SNP
Presiding Officer, I crave your indulgence for my late arrival in the chamber.We are sentimental about the law because the law and the office of Lord Advocat...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD): LD
Again, we have had an interesting debate. It has been interesting listening to colleagues trying to fill not only their time, but that of other members. I en...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con): Con
I declare an interest as a member of the Law Society of England and Wales. I was a practising solicitor with Brodies until June 2007.Like many others who hav...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab
I declare an interest in that my husband is a practising advocate. However, competition, regulation and alternative business structures are not often the sub...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan): SNP
Order. The member may wish to draw her remarks to a conclusion, to allow the minister adequate time to respond.