Chamber
Plenary, 25 Oct 2007
25 Oct 2007 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Alcohol
One of the most harrowing experiences I had as a social worker was taking into care, in the early hours of a morning, a young baby of about six months whose mother and brother had died in a fire. The fire had started after the father had come home from the pub drunk, had been smoking, and had fallen asleep—members can imagine what happened.
Today, alcohol is a direct factor in more than half the deaths that are caused by fire in Scotland. The tragic accident that I described took place in the mid-1980s, and our drinking culture has changed dramatically since then. Research has been done into the misuse of alcohol in pregnancy—others will speak about that—into alcohol in the workplace and into different types of alcohol culture in Scotland.
The evidence is there, but the question is how we pull it together. How do we introduce education, information and—very important—enforcement strategies that will make the changes that are needed to support those who have a drink problem? Good practice exists: Claire Baker and others will give good examples of it later. However, the statistics are still bleak. Binge drinking remains common. It is clear that many people, especially young people, go out solely to get drunk. They do not go out to have a drink; they go out to get drunk. The most difficult problem for us is in trying to change that culture.
Education, with agencies working together and exchanging information, will help. However, alongside that there must be tougher intolerance of excessive drinking and its subsequent behaviour. How many of us in the chamber can honestly say that we have never encouraged somebody to take that extra drink, particularly if they are a happy drunk? The attitude is that they might not be a good singer, but it is okay to let them have another drink because they are a good laugh. There is a bit of responsibility on us to think about how someone like that got the money to drink and what they might do when they go home.
What can we do to change things? There are some hard political choices to be made. We will be accused of being a nanny state and of the infringement of people's civil liberties and rights. Paul Martin has shown in the Local Government and Communities Committee how Labour tried to pursue the issue of the social responsibility that lies with those who sell alcohol. It appears that the Scottish National Party Government is moving in that direction.
Paul Martin has also spoken about the need for stricter enforcement. We need hard-hitting messages about drink-driving, for example, not only at Christmas but throughout the year. Further, I still have concerns about a drinks industry that spends more than £200 million a year on advertising and sponsorship. I would like to see the end of sponsorship for sporting and entertainment events that target young audiences.
Young people in Scotland have the highest level of drinking and drunkenness in Europe. It is not just about going out for a drink—they have to get drunk. Alcohol education is patchy and there is a need for a review. We need to explore the contribution that is made by the multi-agency teams and voluntary organisations—I am not sure that we are managing that integration—and ask whether the intervention is happening early enough.
As Dr McKee knows, intervention is difficult. Those of us who have worked with problem drinkers of all ages know that our contribution is worthless if they are not ready to give up the drink, or at least control their drinking. We must recognise that, in some cases, the nature of the work will mean that we will be in legitimate conflict with those whom we are tasked to help. For example, if I had a referral from a court or a children's panel to go out and help someone and give them support, I could talk from then to the next Sunday, but it would be no good if the person did not want to be helped. Believe me, working with problem drinkers is not easy, particularly for those on the front line.
It is not easy, for example, for someone to go into work on a Monday morning to be told that they have a referral for a family in which the father is in hospital because he is drunk and the mother is in a terrible state because she and the kids have been battered. The worker may not have heard of the family before and not know who they are, but they have to make a cold call to the family's door to try to help them and try to get the father to look at his drink problem, which is the last thing that he wants to do. It is all right having all the ideas about enforcement and working together, but at the end of the day somebody will have to do that job—that is where we must put our support.
I am well within my time, because I know my job, so I will ask three or four questions. Will the minister give us an update on the industry partnership agreement? Where does the 2007 alcohol action update sit and does the minister think that it needs more investment? Will the minister consider introducing standardised alcohol education in schools? With regard to health, the motion says that the NHS will play its part; I am not sure what that means. I would also be interested in an update on the national licensing forum.
We can make a difference through strong enforcement; sticking by our commitments; good, sensible multi-agency working with the industry and with Government; and a strategy that we can all sign up to. Judging by what the cabinet secretary has said, we are halfway to doing that. We can go some way towards changing the drinking culture of this nation, but, believe me, it is a hard job and it will take us a long time.
Today, alcohol is a direct factor in more than half the deaths that are caused by fire in Scotland. The tragic accident that I described took place in the mid-1980s, and our drinking culture has changed dramatically since then. Research has been done into the misuse of alcohol in pregnancy—others will speak about that—into alcohol in the workplace and into different types of alcohol culture in Scotland.
The evidence is there, but the question is how we pull it together. How do we introduce education, information and—very important—enforcement strategies that will make the changes that are needed to support those who have a drink problem? Good practice exists: Claire Baker and others will give good examples of it later. However, the statistics are still bleak. Binge drinking remains common. It is clear that many people, especially young people, go out solely to get drunk. They do not go out to have a drink; they go out to get drunk. The most difficult problem for us is in trying to change that culture.
Education, with agencies working together and exchanging information, will help. However, alongside that there must be tougher intolerance of excessive drinking and its subsequent behaviour. How many of us in the chamber can honestly say that we have never encouraged somebody to take that extra drink, particularly if they are a happy drunk? The attitude is that they might not be a good singer, but it is okay to let them have another drink because they are a good laugh. There is a bit of responsibility on us to think about how someone like that got the money to drink and what they might do when they go home.
What can we do to change things? There are some hard political choices to be made. We will be accused of being a nanny state and of the infringement of people's civil liberties and rights. Paul Martin has shown in the Local Government and Communities Committee how Labour tried to pursue the issue of the social responsibility that lies with those who sell alcohol. It appears that the Scottish National Party Government is moving in that direction.
Paul Martin has also spoken about the need for stricter enforcement. We need hard-hitting messages about drink-driving, for example, not only at Christmas but throughout the year. Further, I still have concerns about a drinks industry that spends more than £200 million a year on advertising and sponsorship. I would like to see the end of sponsorship for sporting and entertainment events that target young audiences.
Young people in Scotland have the highest level of drinking and drunkenness in Europe. It is not just about going out for a drink—they have to get drunk. Alcohol education is patchy and there is a need for a review. We need to explore the contribution that is made by the multi-agency teams and voluntary organisations—I am not sure that we are managing that integration—and ask whether the intervention is happening early enough.
As Dr McKee knows, intervention is difficult. Those of us who have worked with problem drinkers of all ages know that our contribution is worthless if they are not ready to give up the drink, or at least control their drinking. We must recognise that, in some cases, the nature of the work will mean that we will be in legitimate conflict with those whom we are tasked to help. For example, if I had a referral from a court or a children's panel to go out and help someone and give them support, I could talk from then to the next Sunday, but it would be no good if the person did not want to be helped. Believe me, working with problem drinkers is not easy, particularly for those on the front line.
It is not easy, for example, for someone to go into work on a Monday morning to be told that they have a referral for a family in which the father is in hospital because he is drunk and the mother is in a terrible state because she and the kids have been battered. The worker may not have heard of the family before and not know who they are, but they have to make a cold call to the family's door to try to help them and try to get the father to look at his drink problem, which is the last thing that he wants to do. It is all right having all the ideas about enforcement and working together, but at the end of the day somebody will have to do that job—that is where we must put our support.
I am well within my time, because I know my job, so I will ask three or four questions. Will the minister give us an update on the industry partnership agreement? Where does the 2007 alcohol action update sit and does the minister think that it needs more investment? Will the minister consider introducing standardised alcohol education in schools? With regard to health, the motion says that the NHS will play its part; I am not sure what that means. I would also be interested in an update on the national licensing forum.
We can make a difference through strong enforcement; sticking by our commitments; good, sensible multi-agency working with the industry and with Government; and a strategy that we can all sign up to. Judging by what the cabinet secretary has said, we are halfway to doing that. We can go some way towards changing the drinking culture of this nation, but, believe me, it is a hard job and it will take us a long time.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-681, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on alcohol. I invite members who wish to take part in the debate to ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
I say at the outset that I will be happy to accept Pauline McNeill's amendment. We are seeking to address underage drinking and although we have laws, they m...
David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab):
Lab
Does the cabinet secretary share my concern that alcohol can be bought in garages and chip shops? Surely making it so easy to purchase alcohol increases the ...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
Absolutely. The matter was flagged up by the previous Executive, and this Government will continue to move in the same direction.The fact is that we have to ...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
Should we infer from the tenor of the cabinet secretary's comments that the Government wants the whole Parliament to urge the Chancellor of the Exchequer to ...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
This Government feels that we should have those powers because they are, after all, powers that any normal independent nation has that allow it to act approp...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
I am not sure that every member does agree. In other European Union countries, such as Italy, people spend a lot of money on alcohol and wine, and beer and s...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
We said at the outset that although price is not the only issue, it is a pivotal factor. We want to address the culture of price promotion and a variety of o...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I should have said that we will be extremely tight for time if we are to fit everyone in, so I ask members to watch their time.
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
The Executive is to be commended for having a debate on alcohol during alcohol awareness week. It is important that members put on record our appreciation of...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab):
Lab
The most recent "Scottish Schools Adolescent Lifestyle and Substance Use Survey National Report"—a survey of schoolchildren aged 13 and 15, which is conducte...
Paul Martin:
Lab
I thank Richard Simpson, who made—as always—a well-informed intervention. I will talk about underage consumption.On the proposal to ban certain drinks promot...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
The debate is on a reasonably consensual matter; indeed, the Conservatives find the Labour Party and Liberal Democrat amendments acceptable. There is also mu...
The Minister for Public Health (Shona Robison):
SNP
Does Bill Aitken not accept that the whole point of alcohol awareness week is that people should know their own drinking limits? Surely each person should as...
Bill Aitken:
Con
The words to stress are "their own". We are talking about individual levels. That is the way forward, but we have to recognise that each individual has a dif...
Shona Robison:
SNP
Does the member agree that the evidence clearly shows that rates of consumption have gone up? Where young people are concerned, there is a direct correlation...
Bill Aitken:
Con
I will explain where my concern lies. Suppose a supermarket does a deal that involves selling 12 cans of lager for the price of six. If an old-age pensioner ...
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD):
LD
I welcome the cabinet secretary's securing of this debate on alcohol. I also welcome many of his remarks, particularly those on the importance, difficulties ...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
Is the member suggesting that the ways in which alcohol is promoted that I mentioned in my speech are acceptable? Is it acceptable that beer is displayed wit...
Ross Finnie:
LD
That is not the point that I am making, although I can see where the cabinet secretary is coming from. History shows that there is a danger in the sort of wo...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We move to the open debate, with speeches of a tight six minutes, please.
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
We have heard and will hear more about the strategies that have been suggested for educating consumers on the dangers of excess alcohol consumption and about...
Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab):
Lab
One of the most harrowing experiences I had as a social worker was taking into care, in the early hours of a morning, a young baby of about six months whose ...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP):
SNP
In August 1994, while I was on holiday in Austria, I got the phone call that no one wants to receive. My mother called me to tell me that my father had died....
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome alcohol awareness week and its efforts to encourage sensible drinking. However, as other members highlighted, an unhealthy attitude towards alcohol...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
Excessive alcohol consumption is a growing problem throughout Scotland, including in my constituency in the Borders. Lifestyles and the way in which alcohol ...
Dr Simpson:
Lab
The member makes an important point, but the early stages of alcohol-related brain damage result in repeated admissions, so the important point is not just t...
John Lamont:
Con
Indeed. I agree.Men and women in Scotland drink more frequently than men and women in England. Men and women in Scotland are also more likely to exceed the d...
Hugh O'Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
Scotland's somewhat unhealthy relationship with alcohol is nothing new, as most of us know. The scale of the problem is obvious; it is growing and has been f...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
Will the member explain what he believes are the extreme legal interventions that the Government is proposing? I view our regulations on liquor licensing as ...