Chamber
Plenary, 25 Oct 2007
25 Oct 2007 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Alcohol
That is not the point that I am making, although I can see where the cabinet secretary is coming from. History shows that there is a danger in the sort of wording that is used in the motion. That is not to say that we do not understand the problem that the cabinet secretary mentioned.
The second difficulty that I have with the motion is one that Paul Martin raised. It concerns the curious notion that we should simply seek to get those who profit from alcohol to deal with the costs. Premises may be run successfully by responsible landlords who choose to take steps to exclude from the premises persons who are not drinking responsibly. Profit is not the criterion that we should use in judging whether to deal with people. We must be clear. Rather than deal with the generality, as stated in the motion, the licensing boards and courts must deal with the people who create the problem.
As the cabinet secretary said, there is no one solution—the matter is complex and requires sustained commitment from everyone involved. We must start with education, as Bill Aitken said forcibly. I cannot recall a single visit to a school in recent years when the question of alcohol abuse did not arise and the pupils did not say how ignorant they were of the effects of alcohol and the impact that it has on them. As Bill Aitken said, we must start with education, both at home and in the education system. We must bring that together, as well as considering what we do in relation to the media.
Producers and retailers have a key role. They have signed up to the responsible drinking agenda, which is helpful. We heard at an event last night that some producers are moving rapidly on the labelling issue, which is to be warmly welcomed. The Liberal Democrats welcome the fact that a range of information will now be included on labels. As a minimum, labels will have unit consumption data, a sensible drinking message and the recommended guidelines. That is important. We also think that we need to do more on alcohol treatment, which Paul Martin mentioned. I hope that the cabinet secretary is making a serious bid in the spending review for increased funding during the next period for rehabilitation and other matters. We need to care for people, notwithstanding the points that Paul Martin made.
Cheap alcohol is a problem, but we must consider the matter carefully. I take the cabinet secretary's point about deep discounting and I certainly wish to exclude that, but it is odd that, as a nation that has one of the highest levels of duty, we still appear to have a major problem with pricing. We need serious research on how we can best tackle the problem, although some of the bans that the Government has introduced will be helpful. We need to extend the test purchasing schemes that have been introduced and review the progress of the challenge 21 scheme.
In changing perceptions, we must begin from the premise that alcohol is a public health and cultural issue. We should use all the resources that are available to us in a co-ordinated way to bring about the right result. We should acknowledge that the criminal justice system is a buttress to that and not the lead party.
I move amendment S3M-681.3, to leave out from first "notes" to end and insert:
"welcomes Scotland's first Alcohol Awareness Week and calls for a co-ordinated approach by all relevant stakeholders to tackle the problems of alcohol misuse that are a key social and public health priority; recognises that tougher action against those who sell and promote alcohol irresponsibly is a necessary step but must form part of a comprehensive strategy that emphasises the importance of education and addresses the social and cultural factors related to alcohol misuse; believes that this policy framework must strike a balance between state and individual responsibility and must not be overly reliant on the criminal justice system to bring about the changes desired, and calls on the Scottish Government to commit additional investment to treatment and rehabilitation."
The second difficulty that I have with the motion is one that Paul Martin raised. It concerns the curious notion that we should simply seek to get those who profit from alcohol to deal with the costs. Premises may be run successfully by responsible landlords who choose to take steps to exclude from the premises persons who are not drinking responsibly. Profit is not the criterion that we should use in judging whether to deal with people. We must be clear. Rather than deal with the generality, as stated in the motion, the licensing boards and courts must deal with the people who create the problem.
As the cabinet secretary said, there is no one solution—the matter is complex and requires sustained commitment from everyone involved. We must start with education, as Bill Aitken said forcibly. I cannot recall a single visit to a school in recent years when the question of alcohol abuse did not arise and the pupils did not say how ignorant they were of the effects of alcohol and the impact that it has on them. As Bill Aitken said, we must start with education, both at home and in the education system. We must bring that together, as well as considering what we do in relation to the media.
Producers and retailers have a key role. They have signed up to the responsible drinking agenda, which is helpful. We heard at an event last night that some producers are moving rapidly on the labelling issue, which is to be warmly welcomed. The Liberal Democrats welcome the fact that a range of information will now be included on labels. As a minimum, labels will have unit consumption data, a sensible drinking message and the recommended guidelines. That is important. We also think that we need to do more on alcohol treatment, which Paul Martin mentioned. I hope that the cabinet secretary is making a serious bid in the spending review for increased funding during the next period for rehabilitation and other matters. We need to care for people, notwithstanding the points that Paul Martin made.
Cheap alcohol is a problem, but we must consider the matter carefully. I take the cabinet secretary's point about deep discounting and I certainly wish to exclude that, but it is odd that, as a nation that has one of the highest levels of duty, we still appear to have a major problem with pricing. We need serious research on how we can best tackle the problem, although some of the bans that the Government has introduced will be helpful. We need to extend the test purchasing schemes that have been introduced and review the progress of the challenge 21 scheme.
In changing perceptions, we must begin from the premise that alcohol is a public health and cultural issue. We should use all the resources that are available to us in a co-ordinated way to bring about the right result. We should acknowledge that the criminal justice system is a buttress to that and not the lead party.
I move amendment S3M-681.3, to leave out from first "notes" to end and insert:
"welcomes Scotland's first Alcohol Awareness Week and calls for a co-ordinated approach by all relevant stakeholders to tackle the problems of alcohol misuse that are a key social and public health priority; recognises that tougher action against those who sell and promote alcohol irresponsibly is a necessary step but must form part of a comprehensive strategy that emphasises the importance of education and addresses the social and cultural factors related to alcohol misuse; believes that this policy framework must strike a balance between state and individual responsibility and must not be overly reliant on the criminal justice system to bring about the changes desired, and calls on the Scottish Government to commit additional investment to treatment and rehabilitation."
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-681, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on alcohol. I invite members who wish to take part in the debate to ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
I say at the outset that I will be happy to accept Pauline McNeill's amendment. We are seeking to address underage drinking and although we have laws, they m...
David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab):
Lab
Does the cabinet secretary share my concern that alcohol can be bought in garages and chip shops? Surely making it so easy to purchase alcohol increases the ...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
Absolutely. The matter was flagged up by the previous Executive, and this Government will continue to move in the same direction.The fact is that we have to ...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
Should we infer from the tenor of the cabinet secretary's comments that the Government wants the whole Parliament to urge the Chancellor of the Exchequer to ...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
This Government feels that we should have those powers because they are, after all, powers that any normal independent nation has that allow it to act approp...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
I am not sure that every member does agree. In other European Union countries, such as Italy, people spend a lot of money on alcohol and wine, and beer and s...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
We said at the outset that although price is not the only issue, it is a pivotal factor. We want to address the culture of price promotion and a variety of o...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I should have said that we will be extremely tight for time if we are to fit everyone in, so I ask members to watch their time.
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
The Executive is to be commended for having a debate on alcohol during alcohol awareness week. It is important that members put on record our appreciation of...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab):
Lab
The most recent "Scottish Schools Adolescent Lifestyle and Substance Use Survey National Report"—a survey of schoolchildren aged 13 and 15, which is conducte...
Paul Martin:
Lab
I thank Richard Simpson, who made—as always—a well-informed intervention. I will talk about underage consumption.On the proposal to ban certain drinks promot...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
The debate is on a reasonably consensual matter; indeed, the Conservatives find the Labour Party and Liberal Democrat amendments acceptable. There is also mu...
The Minister for Public Health (Shona Robison):
SNP
Does Bill Aitken not accept that the whole point of alcohol awareness week is that people should know their own drinking limits? Surely each person should as...
Bill Aitken:
Con
The words to stress are "their own". We are talking about individual levels. That is the way forward, but we have to recognise that each individual has a dif...
Shona Robison:
SNP
Does the member agree that the evidence clearly shows that rates of consumption have gone up? Where young people are concerned, there is a direct correlation...
Bill Aitken:
Con
I will explain where my concern lies. Suppose a supermarket does a deal that involves selling 12 cans of lager for the price of six. If an old-age pensioner ...
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD):
LD
I welcome the cabinet secretary's securing of this debate on alcohol. I also welcome many of his remarks, particularly those on the importance, difficulties ...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
Is the member suggesting that the ways in which alcohol is promoted that I mentioned in my speech are acceptable? Is it acceptable that beer is displayed wit...
Ross Finnie:
LD
That is not the point that I am making, although I can see where the cabinet secretary is coming from. History shows that there is a danger in the sort of wo...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We move to the open debate, with speeches of a tight six minutes, please.
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
We have heard and will hear more about the strategies that have been suggested for educating consumers on the dangers of excess alcohol consumption and about...
Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab):
Lab
One of the most harrowing experiences I had as a social worker was taking into care, in the early hours of a morning, a young baby of about six months whose ...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP):
SNP
In August 1994, while I was on holiday in Austria, I got the phone call that no one wants to receive. My mother called me to tell me that my father had died....
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome alcohol awareness week and its efforts to encourage sensible drinking. However, as other members highlighted, an unhealthy attitude towards alcohol...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
Excessive alcohol consumption is a growing problem throughout Scotland, including in my constituency in the Borders. Lifestyles and the way in which alcohol ...
Dr Simpson:
Lab
The member makes an important point, but the early stages of alcohol-related brain damage result in repeated admissions, so the important point is not just t...
John Lamont:
Con
Indeed. I agree.Men and women in Scotland drink more frequently than men and women in England. Men and women in Scotland are also more likely to exceed the d...
Hugh O'Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
Scotland's somewhat unhealthy relationship with alcohol is nothing new, as most of us know. The scale of the problem is obvious; it is growing and has been f...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
Will the member explain what he believes are the extreme legal interventions that the Government is proposing? I view our regulations on liquor licensing as ...