Chamber
Plenary, 22 Mar 2007
22 Mar 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Education
I was not aware that David Cameron was offering lodgings to Frank McAveety.
The debate has been interesting, especially as there is a lot of common ground, despite the rants that we have heard. The minister's rant against the SNP was very enjoyable. Amazingly, for once, a minister's speech actually had some content. Those little bits I agree with, but the rest of it I am not sure about. The minister cannot take credit for everything because things progress gently.
However, Conservative members support the minister in thanking staff, who make it all happen, despite the bureaucracy and tedium of some of the systems that are forced on teachers, to which Lord James Douglas-Hamilton referred.
All members are grateful and pay tribute to Lord James. He was a great guiding light when I first entered Parliament because he has a wealth of experience. As a friend and colleague of Lord James, I know that he uses his experience for the benefit of others. It has been an abiding passion of his life to put children first. The legislation that he has steered through, his tenure of the education brief and his time in Parliament have been all about giving children opportunity in life—helping families to help their children and helping teachers to help children. We must put children at the centre and ensure that the systems that we put in place are not centrally run but exist to benefit the individual. When we talk about special needs, I worry that we are telling people that their only option is mainstream education. That is nonsense. We must look at education in a new light and consider individual children's needs.
Today Susan Deacon and Donald Gorrie made excellent speeches. I do not disagree with anything that either of them said, and their going represents a great loss to the parliamentary process. However, I was puzzled by some of Fiona Hyslop's speech. She talked about nursery provision, but did not mention parental choice. SNP members made no mention of where parents come into the scheme of things. I agree with Fiona Hyslop that there needs to be better continuous professional development for teachers—that is true for all the professions—and about the problems that exist with regard to training places. We all get letters from potential teachers who cannot find training places or permanent work, so Parliament should address that issue.
I agree with Fiona Hyslop on community access to school establishments. My local primary school is being rebuilt, in combination with another school, and will be a community facility. That is a good way to spend our money. However, the member did not answer my question about how to attract senior science teachers. We cannot leave the problem until the people who are now in primary school have grown up, because by then we will have missed the market. I am not sure whether I heard Fiona Hyslop right, but it sounded as if she wanted to nationalise banks because they make a profit. That is a matter for another day.
Everyone who has spoken has had a go at the SNP's proposed bond scheme—once again, the SNP has failed to recognise the facts of life. There may or may not be an independent Scotland, depending on what the people choose, but the scheme cannot be happen if the SNP ever leads an Administration under the Scotland Act 1998.
James Douglas-Hamilton discussed a number of aspects of our proposed education bill and covered all the points that many of us have agreed over the years, although he ran out of time because members were being so kind to him.
We must bring back school boards, involve parents and deal with the discipline problems in schools. I agree with Iain Smith's comments on the SNP's proposed bonds, but not with what he said about coalition. Coalition can be discussed only after the election—it is not an issue to blether about now, when people want to know what policies are so that they can decide whether to support them.
The debate has been interesting, especially as there is a lot of common ground, despite the rants that we have heard. The minister's rant against the SNP was very enjoyable. Amazingly, for once, a minister's speech actually had some content. Those little bits I agree with, but the rest of it I am not sure about. The minister cannot take credit for everything because things progress gently.
However, Conservative members support the minister in thanking staff, who make it all happen, despite the bureaucracy and tedium of some of the systems that are forced on teachers, to which Lord James Douglas-Hamilton referred.
All members are grateful and pay tribute to Lord James. He was a great guiding light when I first entered Parliament because he has a wealth of experience. As a friend and colleague of Lord James, I know that he uses his experience for the benefit of others. It has been an abiding passion of his life to put children first. The legislation that he has steered through, his tenure of the education brief and his time in Parliament have been all about giving children opportunity in life—helping families to help their children and helping teachers to help children. We must put children at the centre and ensure that the systems that we put in place are not centrally run but exist to benefit the individual. When we talk about special needs, I worry that we are telling people that their only option is mainstream education. That is nonsense. We must look at education in a new light and consider individual children's needs.
Today Susan Deacon and Donald Gorrie made excellent speeches. I do not disagree with anything that either of them said, and their going represents a great loss to the parliamentary process. However, I was puzzled by some of Fiona Hyslop's speech. She talked about nursery provision, but did not mention parental choice. SNP members made no mention of where parents come into the scheme of things. I agree with Fiona Hyslop that there needs to be better continuous professional development for teachers—that is true for all the professions—and about the problems that exist with regard to training places. We all get letters from potential teachers who cannot find training places or permanent work, so Parliament should address that issue.
I agree with Fiona Hyslop on community access to school establishments. My local primary school is being rebuilt, in combination with another school, and will be a community facility. That is a good way to spend our money. However, the member did not answer my question about how to attract senior science teachers. We cannot leave the problem until the people who are now in primary school have grown up, because by then we will have missed the market. I am not sure whether I heard Fiona Hyslop right, but it sounded as if she wanted to nationalise banks because they make a profit. That is a matter for another day.
Everyone who has spoken has had a go at the SNP's proposed bond scheme—once again, the SNP has failed to recognise the facts of life. There may or may not be an independent Scotland, depending on what the people choose, but the scheme cannot be happen if the SNP ever leads an Administration under the Scotland Act 1998.
James Douglas-Hamilton discussed a number of aspects of our proposed education bill and covered all the points that many of us have agreed over the years, although he ran out of time because members were being so kind to him.
We must bring back school boards, involve parents and deal with the discipline problems in schools. I agree with Iain Smith's comments on the SNP's proposed bonds, but not with what he said about coalition. Coalition can be discussed only after the election—it is not an issue to blether about now, when people want to know what policies are so that they can decide whether to support them.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5775, in the name of Hugh Henry, on celebrating success in Scottish education.
The Minister for Education and Young People (Hugh Henry):
Lab
I am delighted to open a debate that gives us an opportunity to put on record all the significant developments that are taking place in Scottish education.As...
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
If such substantial progress has been made since the Labour-Liberal Executive came to power, can the minister explain why in 1997 there were 1,707 teachers i...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
The Executive has delivered on its commitment to bring in more teachers. Indeed, by August, we will have met our target of 53,000 teachers in Scotland. As th...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
The minister is not the only one who visits schools in Scotland; as he would expect, we all do. Secondary schools have been telling us that a quarter of prim...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
We can address some of the issues that still have to be tackled. The fact is that Scotland's performance ranks in the top third of Organisation for Economic ...
Richard Lochhead (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
Does the minister agree that it is unfortunate that many of the rural schools in Moray that have received excellent inspection reports in recent years have b...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
Any such decision—and, indeed, the quality of education in the area—is a matter for the local authority in Moray. However, we are determined to raise standar...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I greatly appreciated the minister's list of visits to schools in marginal constituencies with Labour members who are in their final days in office.The SNP i...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
Does the member have any information on the geographical location and sociological demographics of the classes that she describes as being too big?
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
Margo MacDonald makes a good point. Indeed, in the debate on the Crichton campus at lunch time, the issue was raised in relation to Dumfries and Galloway. Pe...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
Will the member give way?
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
I want to move on.We should be introducing a baccalaureate as a group award in highers for top performance, first in languages and then in science, to encour...
Mr Davidson:
Con
Will Ms Hyslop enlighten us on the science baccalaureate? What plans does the SNP have to fill the current shortages in science teachers at the top end of sc...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
The SNP plans to maintain teacher numbers in the face of falling school rolls. We will encourage people to become teachers, particularly early years, science...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
I am in my last minute.The extra cost of PPP finance means that schools will lose at least £900,000 that could be spent on more books, better equipment and m...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):
Con
Like Fiona Hyslop, we all believe strongly in the pursuit of educational excellence. I thank her for her kind words about the Children (Scotland) Act 1995. I...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
I pay tribute to Lord James for the contribution that he has made to public life in Scotland over many years. He has played a distinguished role not only in ...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton:
Con
There have been substantial improvements to Scottish education since before that time. Those improvements have been steady and we must learn from them. Howev...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton:
Con
I will take a brief intervention, but I have quite a lot to say.
Margaret Smith:
LD
Does the member agree that it is important that Scottish history be taught in our schools, if for no other reason than to remind children of the important ro...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton:
Con
I thank Margaret Smith and Hugh Henry very much for their kind words.I support the teaching of history in schools, although not for the reason that Margaret ...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):
LD
I am pleased to follow Lord James Douglas-Hamilton in the debate, because that gives me an opportunity to pay tribute to him after his final speech in this p...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
Will the Treasury have an interest in whether the PPP-style mechanism can be replaced with another one, or will it be something that is just for the Scottish...
Iain Smith:
LD
My understanding is that the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to create the bonds that the SNP proposes to have, which means that the policy would...
Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
We are going to abolish the council tax, not cap it.
Iain Smith:
LD
Whether it is the council tax or the local income tax that is capped, it will starve local authorities of resources. Worse than that, the SNP will put all th...
Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab):
Lab
I start by adding to the tributes to Lord James Douglas-Hamilton. Some 30 or so years ago, Lord James was my MP, although I am afraid that I did not vote for...