Chamber
Plenary, 22 Mar 2007
22 Mar 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Crichton University Campus
As a former member for the South of Scotland, I would have wished to participate in the previous debate on the subject that was held some weeks ago, which was initiated by Dr Elaine Murray but, as members will recall, personal circumstances prevented my being in Parliament. I am therefore grateful to Alasdair Morgan for facilitating a second debate in which he, as other members have done, made an excellent and forceful speech.
I read the Official Report of the previous debate and found much in it with which I agreed strongly. Members made clear then—and have made clear again today—the importance of the Crichton campus and the University of Glasgow's participation in it. They have also focused on the impact of the decision on the south-west's economy, and have highlighted in particular the importance of many courses in sustaining local services including, as Alex Fergusson pointed out, local government services; in providing opportunities for people who not only live in, but move to, Dumfries and Galloway; and in ensuring a sense of equity.
I understand why, in the previous debate, Allan Wilson cautioned members against making inappropriate regional comparisons. The UHI is, indeed, based on a different model, and any comparisons that are made between and among regions must depend on such factors being taken into account. Nevertheless, in the previous debate, Dr Murray made some very telling comparisons—that have since been circulated by, among others, Mrs Hilary Grieve on behalf of the Crichton Trust—about the investment that appears to be available to sustain higher education in the south-west of Scotland and that which is available in other areas. By drawing such comparisons, we are not knocking what has been done for UHI; instead, we are demanding that resources be made available equitably throughout the country.
I also acknowledge the point that Allan Wilson made in the previous debate about the difficulties that are faced by the Executive in telling universities and the Scottish funding council how to operate their budgets; indeed, Dr Murray made that point again in this debate. However, we must point out that the funding that is made available to the funding council and the universities is public money that is provided by taxpayers. The people who discharge the responsibilities that have been given to them are, through ministers, accountable ultimately to the people who have been elected by taxpayers.
I read the Official Report of the previous debate and found much in it with which I agreed strongly. Members made clear then—and have made clear again today—the importance of the Crichton campus and the University of Glasgow's participation in it. They have also focused on the impact of the decision on the south-west's economy, and have highlighted in particular the importance of many courses in sustaining local services including, as Alex Fergusson pointed out, local government services; in providing opportunities for people who not only live in, but move to, Dumfries and Galloway; and in ensuring a sense of equity.
I understand why, in the previous debate, Allan Wilson cautioned members against making inappropriate regional comparisons. The UHI is, indeed, based on a different model, and any comparisons that are made between and among regions must depend on such factors being taken into account. Nevertheless, in the previous debate, Dr Murray made some very telling comparisons—that have since been circulated by, among others, Mrs Hilary Grieve on behalf of the Crichton Trust—about the investment that appears to be available to sustain higher education in the south-west of Scotland and that which is available in other areas. By drawing such comparisons, we are not knocking what has been done for UHI; instead, we are demanding that resources be made available equitably throughout the country.
I also acknowledge the point that Allan Wilson made in the previous debate about the difficulties that are faced by the Executive in telling universities and the Scottish funding council how to operate their budgets; indeed, Dr Murray made that point again in this debate. However, we must point out that the funding that is made available to the funding council and the universities is public money that is provided by taxpayers. The people who discharge the responsibilities that have been given to them are, through ministers, accountable ultimately to the people who have been elected by taxpayers.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
The next item of business is a members' business debate on motion S2M-5726, in the name of Alasdair Morgan, on Crichton campus and the University of Glasgow....
Motion debated,
That the Parliament welcomes the work to develop an academic strategy for higher and further education in Dumfries and Galloway but, conscious that the failu...
Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I thought for some time before lodging the motion for members' business because I was conscious that the proposed withdrawal of the University of Glasgow fro...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I call Elaine Murray, to be followed by Murray Tosh.
Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab):
Lab
Five weeks has elapsed since my members' business debate on the issue, on 15 February, and I am disappointed that the proposed meeting between the Scottish E...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Murray Tosh has indicated that he will drop down the list in favour of his colleague Alex Fergusson.
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (Con):
Con
I would have been perfectly happy if Murray Tosh had spoken next, but I am happy to step in.I congratulate Alasdair Morgan on securing the debate. Although t...
Chris Ballance (South of Scotland) (Green):
Green
I congratulate Alasdair Morgan on securing today's debate. It is important that we have another debate on the subject because, although it has been only five...
Rosie Kane (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
I thank Alasdair Morgan for securing a debate on Crichton campus and I thank Elaine Murray for doing so on a previous occasion.Usually towards the end of a d...
Murray Tosh (West of Scotland) (Con):
Con
As a former member for the South of Scotland, I would have wished to participate in the previous debate on the subject that was held some weeks ago, which wa...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
Does the member agree that a constructive way forward might be to focus on Dumfries and Galloway's teacher recruitment problems? Perhaps ministerial guidance...
Murray Tosh:
Con
That suggestion sounds perfectly sensible. I do not know whether ministerial guidance is necessarily the right mechanism to use, but I have no doubt that the...
The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson):
Lab
I congratulate Alasdair Morgan on securing this welcome debate, which allows us to continue to acknowledge the Crichton campus's important contribution to im...
Alasdair Morgan:
SNP
Should it be an objective of public policy that higher education courses of the type that the University of Glasgow currently offers be available somewhere i...
Allan Wilson:
Lab
It should be the objective of public policy to secure not a regional approach to higher education provision throughout Scotland, but an approach that determi...
Chris Ballance:
Green
Does the minister accept that there is a difference between higher and further education and, if so, does he accept that if one of those no longer takes plac...
Allan Wilson:
Lab
Through close working with Dumfries and Galloway College and other colleges, the newly merged institution will be able to provide strong transitional support...
Alex Fergusson:
Con
I hear what the minister is saying, but can he confirm for the sake of clarity that he believes that the quality of educational provision, to which he referr...
Allan Wilson:
Lab
I do not envisage the University of Glasgow's not being present on the campus. There is a danger in the member's point that he may be arguing that provision ...
Meeting suspended until 14:15.
On resuming—