Chamber
Plenary, 15 Mar 2007
15 Mar 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Scottish Commission for Public Audit
In case any member is confused, this debate is not on the issue about which the Procedures Committee wrote to the Presiding Officer to say that it was concerned that the Parliament will not get a chance to debate a major report that we produced. This debate is on a different issue. It is also important, but it is quite separate.
The Scottish Commission for Public Audit is a committee, in effect, that is made up of five members. It was established under the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Act 2000 and it considers the activities of Audit Scotland from the Parliament's point of view to ensure that it uses its resources as well as possible. The convener of the commission, Margaret Jamieson, wrote to the Procedures Committee to say that she thought that the commission could be better recognised under the Parliament's rules. Technically, the commission is not a parliamentary committee, but it is an official committee and it is important that it gets its fair share of attention.
Many of our proposals will turn informal arrangements into formal arrangements in standing orders. I will describe the main items. Transcripts of the commission's proceedings should be published in the same way as are Official Reports of committee meetings. Such transcripts are produced informally at the moment, but we are saying that they should be enshrined in the rules.
Similarly, minutes—which are different from transcripts—should be published and the proceedings should be broadcast. Such publication and broadcasting can and do happen, but we will put it into standing orders that they will happen.
In addition, people should know about the commission's activities, so its meetings should be advertised in the Business Bulletin in the same way as are meetings of ordinary parliamentary committees. The commission's meetings will be mentioned in a separate space, but they will be duly advertised so that people who follow our activities carefully know that meetings are scheduled and can follow proceedings.
Those are the changes that will be made. They are encapsulated in less than a page of standing orders, which is not unduly onerous. What Margaret Jamieson has asked for the commission to have is reasonable and the committee readily accepted what was asked for. I hope that the Parliament accepts the changes as a sensible and non-controversial improvement in our rules.
I move,
That the Parliament notes the Procedures Committee's 10th Report, 2006 (Session 2), Scottish Commission for Public Audit and agrees that the changes to Standing Orders set out in Annexe A to the report be made with effect from the day after the Parliament is dissolved at the end of the current session.
The Scottish Commission for Public Audit is a committee, in effect, that is made up of five members. It was established under the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Act 2000 and it considers the activities of Audit Scotland from the Parliament's point of view to ensure that it uses its resources as well as possible. The convener of the commission, Margaret Jamieson, wrote to the Procedures Committee to say that she thought that the commission could be better recognised under the Parliament's rules. Technically, the commission is not a parliamentary committee, but it is an official committee and it is important that it gets its fair share of attention.
Many of our proposals will turn informal arrangements into formal arrangements in standing orders. I will describe the main items. Transcripts of the commission's proceedings should be published in the same way as are Official Reports of committee meetings. Such transcripts are produced informally at the moment, but we are saying that they should be enshrined in the rules.
Similarly, minutes—which are different from transcripts—should be published and the proceedings should be broadcast. Such publication and broadcasting can and do happen, but we will put it into standing orders that they will happen.
In addition, people should know about the commission's activities, so its meetings should be advertised in the Business Bulletin in the same way as are meetings of ordinary parliamentary committees. The commission's meetings will be mentioned in a separate space, but they will be duly advertised so that people who follow our activities carefully know that meetings are scheduled and can follow proceedings.
Those are the changes that will be made. They are encapsulated in less than a page of standing orders, which is not unduly onerous. What Margaret Jamieson has asked for the commission to have is reasonable and the committee readily accepted what was asked for. I hope that the Parliament accepts the changes as a sensible and non-controversial improvement in our rules.
I move,
That the Parliament notes the Procedures Committee's 10th Report, 2006 (Session 2), Scottish Commission for Public Audit and agrees that the changes to Standing Orders set out in Annexe A to the report be made with effect from the day after the Parliament is dissolved at the end of the current session.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5626, in the name of Donald Gorrie, on behalf of the Procedures Committee and the Scottish Commission for...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
In case any member is confused, this debate is not on the issue about which the Procedures Committee wrote to the Presiding Officer to say that it was concer...
Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I am glad that the Presiding Officer urged the Deputy Minister for Justice to hurry, because I am sure that some members have much to say on this matter—alth...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
For Procedures Committee members, the subject has been one of the less exciting but more interesting issues that we have had to examine. I knew of the Scotti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
Margaret Smith is not here, so I call Margaret Jamieson.
Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab):
Lab
I apologise for getting a bit excited about the possibility of being unable to speak in the debate.We are debating an important issue. Many people think that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
We move to the winding-up speeches. Karen Gillon has seven minutes.
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
That is not funny.Here we are again in the Scottish Parliament debating significant matters of great interest to the people of Scotland. Anybody who tries to...
Alasdair Morgan:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Happily.
Alasdair Morgan:
SNP
Will the member comment on what the head commissioner—I assume that that is her title—said about the commission auditing the auditors? Yesterday, I replied t...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
That is a very interesting point. There is always a balance to strike when deciding at what point a process should be ended. No matter what the outcome, ther...
Alex Johnstone:
Con
Is it not the case that the carefully considered point that we discussed at great length when we considered the report was that while we are extending the Pa...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
That is an important point. We did consider it in some detail, so that we reached a balance between the independence of the commission, its public persona an...
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Will the member give way?
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Mr Gallie is very welcome.
Phil Gallie:
Con
I recognise the importance of the issue and the expertise in our auditing systems that has been referred to. Given the fact that the European Union has faile...
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
Miss Gillon, you have two minutes.
Karen Gillon:
Lab
I apologise to Mr Gallie; I should have borrowed the earphones that he traditionally wears in the chamber—I could not hear the middle part of his interventio...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
He did.
Karen Gillon:
Lab
That must be what I missed. It is an aspect of the Parliament that will be sadly lacking after 3 May because Mr Gallie will not be here.Members are obviously...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
You have one minute more. Laughter.
Margaret Jamieson:
Lab
Keep going.
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Members must understand that to be confronted by a request from Margaret Jamieson—
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
Karen Gillon:
Lab
I am in my final minute. Laughter.If a member is confronted with a request from Margaret Jamieson, they are not likely to say no. The Procedures Committee co...