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Chamber

Plenary, 15 Mar 2007

15 Mar 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Custodial Sentences and Weapons (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Amendments 16 to 19 and 33 seek to address Mr Fox's concern that custody-only prisoners could spend longer in prison than those custody and community sentence prisoners who receive very short sentences. Mr Fox wants to remove the anomaly by eliminating the category of custody-only sentences; all offenders who are given a custodial sentence, with the exception of those who are given life sentences, would be subject to a custody and community sentence.

I do not think that anyone disputes that there is an anomaly—that point was acknowledged at stage 1 and stage 2. However, we had to consider the practicalities of ensuring that the custody and community sentence was as effective as possible.

We agree that as many offenders as possible should be subject to the new custody and community regime. That is why we have set the threshold at the lowest practical point—15 days. I emphasise that we have to consider the practicalities. We have said many times that 15 days is the minimum time in which arrangements can be put in place for initial assessments to be made and conditions to be set. We are committed to tackling reoffending, but there is a particular problem with the group of offenders who are committing the types of offences that lead to short custodial sentences. For that group, it will be crucial to break the cycle and provide alternatives to a life of petty crime.

There is a limit to what we can do with those people, given the short sentences, and I know that some commentators do not want custody and community measures to apply to very short sentences—although they do not say what should be done with those offenders instead. I do not think that we should be doing nothing.

For people who are given very short sentences, the approach that is taken will be more about getting them in contact with the range of services that they will need—such as drug treatment, accommodation services, and advice on housing and benefits—to stabilise their lifestyles and move them away from offending. The service will be more akin to signposting people on and brokering access to services, rather than to formal supervision by social work. We have therefore stretched the application of the custody and community regime as far as practicable. Custodial sentences have to be meaningful, and that is what the 15-day threshold seeks to achieve.

Those who are sentenced to fewer than 15 days make up a very small percentage of the prison population. Most of those cases are for fine default. If a person defaults on a fine, they are flouting a disposal already made. In the financial year 2005-06, the average daily prison population of prisoners who had been sentenced to fewer than 15 days was just two. That average excludes fine defaulters.

We are seeking to address fine defaulting in other ways. With fine defaulters, supervised attendance orders provide courts with an alternative to custody. We have announced that, from September this year, supervised attendance orders will be the mandatory penalty for fine default of up to £500. That will mean that the vast majority of fine defaulters will no longer be sent to prison. We estimate that that will remove approximately 3,000 annual receptions to custody for fine default.

Points have been well made about the inadvisability of amendments 16 to 19 and 33 in the name of Colin Fox. I urge Parliament to reject them all.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid): NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Custodial Sentences and Weapons (Scotland) Bill. Members should have with them copies of the bill as ...
Section 4—Basic definitions
The Presiding Officer: NPA
Group 1 is minor and technical amendments. Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2, 3, 45, 4, 48, 54, 65, 68, 69, 71, 74, 6 to...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Johann Lamont): Lab
This large group of amendments deals with a number of technical and drafting issues that have resulted from a final proofreading of the bill's provisions. Th...
Amendment 1 agreed to.
Amendment 2 moved—Johann Lamont—and agreed to.
The Presiding Officer: NPA
Group 2 is on the abolition of custody-only sentences. Amendment 16, in the name of Colin Fox, is grouped with amendments 17 to 19 and 33. Again, I draw memb...
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP): SSP
The purpose of the amendments is to address what has been widely accepted as an anomaly in the bill—the fact that offenders who receive 14-day sentences serv...
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): SNP
On the face of it, Mr Fox's comments and the points that were made by Susan Matheson in Sacro's submission have some merit. However, we need to look at these...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): Con
Colin Fox is technically correct to say that the bill appears to contain an anomaly. However, in my experience, sentences of 14 days or fewer are unheard of....
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): LD
At what stage can proper rehabilitation services and support start? At stage 1 and stage 2, Colin Fox made good points about the time it would take the priso...
Johann Lamont: Lab
Amendments 16 to 19 and 33 seek to address Mr Fox's concern that custody-only prisoners could spend longer in prison than those custody and community sentenc...
Colin Fox: SSP
Those members who argue that the current system is in disrepute are absolutely correct. That is what the bill seeks to address. However, the passage of the p...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
The question is, that amendment 16 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Presiding Officer: NPA
There will be a division. Since this is the first division in these proceedings, there will be a five-minute suspension.
Meeting suspended.
On resuming—
The Presiding Officer: NPA
We will proceed with the division on amendment 16.
ForBaird, Shiona (North East Scotland) (Green) Ballance, Chris (South of Scotland) (Green) Fox, Colin (Lothians) (SSP) Harper, Robin (Lothians) (Green) Harvi...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
The result of the division is: For 6, Against 94, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 16 disagreed to.
Amendment 17 moved—Colin Fox.
The Presiding Officer: NPA
The question is, that amendment 17 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Presiding Officer: NPA
There will be a division.
ForBaird, Shiona (North East Scotland) (Green) Ballance, Chris (South of Scotland) (Green) Fox, Colin (Lothians) (SSP) Harper, Robin (Lothians) (Green) Harvi...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
The result of the division is: For 6, Against 94, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 17 disagreed to.
Amendment 3 moved—Johann Lamont—and agreed to.