Chamber
Plenary, 07 Mar 2007
07 Mar 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill:<br />Stage 3
It is important to concentrate on the real issue before the Parliament this morning: the needs and rights of many of Scotland's shop workers, both those who work in large stores and many who work in smaller stores, who will also be protected under the bill because, if larger stores do not open, smaller stores will not open either. That is one of the important reasons why the Scottish Grocers Federation so strongly supports the bill. I point out that the federation is a member of the Scottish Retail Consortium.
I appreciate that the minister has lodged the three amendments before us in good faith. We have come some way—I have been progressing these issues in the Parliament for three and a half years, and I am grateful to the Executive for being able to reach the position that it has reached today. However, I have some reservations about what will happen if the amendments are agreed to.
If the amendments are agreed to, there is a possibility that the ban affecting new year's day could be introduced at some point in the future. Scotland's shop workers, their families and the many people from across civic Scotland who have supported the bill believe that Christmas day and new year's day are equally important. Therefore, the rationale behind the arguments on Christmas day is the same as that behind the arguments on new year's day.
I appreciate and understand the concerns that have been expressed at various points about the possible damage that the bill may do to Scotland's tourism industry. Let me say at the outset that I have no desire to do anything that would damage that industry, and it is important to remember that in the past three and a half years there has been ample opportunity for us to hear evidence from the tourism industry and for people to put across their point of view.
One reason why I referred to the damage that "may" be done is because we have pleasingly seen tourism in Scotland grow in recent years. Indeed, in its evidence, the Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce pointed out that the high numbers of tourists who are attracted to our cities at new year visit when the vast majority of our large retail stores are not open. The bill would change nothing in effect, but it would reinforce the status quo. I do not believe that one non-shopping day in the new year period would put people off coming to Scotland.
We should recognise the importance of the safeguard that not trading on new year's day gives Scotland's shop workers. For many, new year's day is a celebration. It is also a collective breather from the stresses and strains of everyday life. That is one reason why the Scottish Trades Union Congress has reminded us all in its briefing that the widespread opening of shops will have an impact on not just shop workers but all non-retail workers too.
For shop workers, new year's day is an important break in the busy Christmas and new year sales period. To meet our insatiable demand to shop during the winter festivals, they are generally not allowed to take holidays between the beginning of December and the middle of January and it is often expected that they will work long hours and not take rest days.
I understand the tourism industry's concern that a message might be sent out that Scotland is closed. However, I do not agree. It is important that we send out the strong message that, with our hotels, pubs and other visitor attractions open, Scotland certainly is not closed for business.
I read with some interest an article in the Edinburgh Evening News yesterday claiming that, if the Parliament passes the bill, whether amended or unamended, we would send out the message that Scotland is closed to tourists and that they would go elsewhere: Dublin, Barcelona and Amsterdam were the examples that were cited. I should point out, however, that the shops in Barcelona are closed on new year's day. In Dublin, they are closed because it is a bank holiday, and I am also told that Amsterdammers likewise take their holidays seriously. Perhaps we in Scotland need to do the same. We need to give our shop workers protection and the right to be able to spend that day at home.
I appreciate that the minister has lodged the three amendments before us in good faith. We have come some way—I have been progressing these issues in the Parliament for three and a half years, and I am grateful to the Executive for being able to reach the position that it has reached today. However, I have some reservations about what will happen if the amendments are agreed to.
If the amendments are agreed to, there is a possibility that the ban affecting new year's day could be introduced at some point in the future. Scotland's shop workers, their families and the many people from across civic Scotland who have supported the bill believe that Christmas day and new year's day are equally important. Therefore, the rationale behind the arguments on Christmas day is the same as that behind the arguments on new year's day.
I appreciate and understand the concerns that have been expressed at various points about the possible damage that the bill may do to Scotland's tourism industry. Let me say at the outset that I have no desire to do anything that would damage that industry, and it is important to remember that in the past three and a half years there has been ample opportunity for us to hear evidence from the tourism industry and for people to put across their point of view.
One reason why I referred to the damage that "may" be done is because we have pleasingly seen tourism in Scotland grow in recent years. Indeed, in its evidence, the Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce pointed out that the high numbers of tourists who are attracted to our cities at new year visit when the vast majority of our large retail stores are not open. The bill would change nothing in effect, but it would reinforce the status quo. I do not believe that one non-shopping day in the new year period would put people off coming to Scotland.
We should recognise the importance of the safeguard that not trading on new year's day gives Scotland's shop workers. For many, new year's day is a celebration. It is also a collective breather from the stresses and strains of everyday life. That is one reason why the Scottish Trades Union Congress has reminded us all in its briefing that the widespread opening of shops will have an impact on not just shop workers but all non-retail workers too.
For shop workers, new year's day is an important break in the busy Christmas and new year sales period. To meet our insatiable demand to shop during the winter festivals, they are generally not allowed to take holidays between the beginning of December and the middle of January and it is often expected that they will work long hours and not take rest days.
I understand the tourism industry's concern that a message might be sent out that Scotland is closed. However, I do not agree. It is important that we send out the strong message that, with our hotels, pubs and other visitor attractions open, Scotland certainly is not closed for business.
I read with some interest an article in the Edinburgh Evening News yesterday claiming that, if the Parliament passes the bill, whether amended or unamended, we would send out the message that Scotland is closed to tourists and that they would go elsewhere: Dublin, Barcelona and Amsterdam were the examples that were cited. I should point out, however, that the shops in Barcelona are closed on new year's day. In Dublin, they are closed because it is a bank holiday, and I am also told that Amsterdammers likewise take their holidays seriously. Perhaps we in Scotland need to do the same. We need to give our shop workers protection and the right to be able to spend that day at home.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 of the Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with amendments, members should have copies ...
Section 1—Large shops not to open on Christmas Day or New Year's Day
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 1 is on the application of the bill to new year's day. Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2 and 3.
The Minister for Justice (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
The bill is an important measure that sets out to prohibit large shops from making retail sales on our two traditionally most important public holidays. Ther...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
I acknowledge the minister's constructive comments. At stage 1, the Executive presented evidence that about 80 per cent of all shop workers will not fall wit...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
As Mr Purvis has suggested, many shop workers will not be covered by the bill, such as those who work in small shops. That is a given and we understood that ...
Mr Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
No one wants Christmas day and new year's day to become general trading days, and I agree with much of what the minister said in her opening remarks. The Jus...
Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab):
Lab
I still have concerns about the proposed voluntary code. Although I am not a member of the Justice 2 Committee, I sat through the evidence on the bill. The S...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
The Scottish Conservatives' position on the bill has been clear from the outset—I made it clear when Parliament debated the bill at stage 1. We do not have d...
The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson):
Lab
Does Murdo Fraser agree that there is a difference between a person who works in an essential service or a continuous manufacturing process being contractual...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
The minister makes the argument for extending the bill to cover shops of all sizes and other industries. Why does the bill restrict trading only in particula...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I pay tribute to Karen Whitefield. The Liberal Democrats in Parliament share her desire to keep Christmas day and new year's day as special days that are not...
Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green):
Green
It is clear that the case has not been made that Scotland will miss out on income if the largest stores cannot open on new year's day.Mary Mulligan clearly d...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
Why does the member think that it is okay to work in a small business but not in a big business on new year's day? I am in a quandary about that, because the...
Mark Ballard:
Green
The Scottish Grocers Federation clearly pointed out the difference between a family shop and a big business in which there is the potential for employees to ...
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP):
SSP
The Executive is in an utter mess over the bill. The minister told us that the bill is important in that it will prevent trading on Christmas day. She said t...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
It would have been nice if Mary Mulligan had attended the Justice 2 Committee and laid before it the evidence that she claims she has, identifying all the in...
Mrs Mulligan:
Lab
If Mr Davidson sees the bill as an infringement on trade, why is he happy to accept the measures for Christmas day, but not those for new year's day?
Mr Davidson:
Con
Very simply, we do not think that there should be a bill at all. There was no evidence that anybody, at this stage, wants to trade on Christmas day. The reta...
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
Is it Mr Davidson's viewpoint that people do not want to trade on Christmas day, or are the Tories playing to the church vote that they think they might get ...
Mr Davidson:
Con
I am sorry, but given that I ran retail businesses that had to operate on Christmas day to provide a public service, I think that that comment is a wee bit m...
Members:
That is not the same thing.
Mr Davidson:
Con
I hear members shouting from a sedentary position, but what is the difference between somebody who works to meet a public need, whether related to health or ...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
How can the bill be a restraint on trade? The bill prevents large shops from opening on Christmas day, when they do not open anyway; the amendments would let...
Mr Davidson:
Con
Restraint on trade is the principle of the bill.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
It does not restrain—
Mr Davidson:
Con
I did not introduce the bill; Karen Whitefield did. The point is that, if there is no market, people will not open their premises. People should be left to r...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
It is important to concentrate on the real issue before the Parliament this morning: the needs and rights of many of Scotland's shop workers, both those who ...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP):
SSCUP
Does Karen Whitefield agree that everyone who votes for ordinary working people going to work on new year's day should be prepared to come in here on the sam...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
I have some sympathy with that argument. It is unlikely that anyone in the chamber works on new year's day or Christmas day. We take that for granted, as do ...